[00:00:00] Lisa: One of the most important focus areas for talent leaders is DEI diversity, equity and inclusion. In recent years, organizations have been investing more and more in supporting DEI and creating truly and inclusive cultures. It's a continuous journey of learning and growth for all taking place against a backdrop of local and global events, highlighting racial injustices and systemic inequity.
My guest today has a gift for explaining how talent leaders can contribute and play a key role going forward, including where to start if your organization has not yet really begun. My guest is Cheryl Bard. We a leader whose passion for developing people, making meaningful connections and create inclusive spaces has driven her career journey in talent manner.
Cheryl's professional career started in training and through a series of pivots opportunities and accomplishments. She's evolved into a trusted advisor and respected leader who builds motivated, engaged, and inclusive teams while helping other leaders in organizations do this. Cheryl is also a woman of color, mother daughter, lifelong athlete, community advocate, trained CTI coach, mentor, and devoted friend.
She is currently the leader of talent and people processes at Cadillac Fairview. It was a pleasure getting to know Cheryl a bit during this episode, and I appreciate her sharing, practical ideas and examples that will help us all do better when it comes to inclusion. Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to talent management truths on your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today my guest is Cheryl Bardwell and Cheryl is a passionate leader in the area of diversity, equity and inclusion. And I'm delighted to have her on the show until recently she was the director for DEI at Riviera, which is a large.
Living company and she is currently exploring options for her next adventure, where I know she will add a lot of value and, and be able to teach other leaders about creating inclusive spaces. So with that, I'd like to welcome you Cheryl to the show. Thanks for coming.
[00:03:49] Cheryl: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here with you today, Lisa.
[00:03:52] Lisa: Me too. So let's dig into our conversation. I thought maybe what we could do is start with just telling me and the listeners a little bit about how you got your start and how you ended up in this really important area.
[00:04:07] Cheryl: Yeah. I mean, well, I started in talent really in training, like functional training. And my role is, not Computers.
finance and things like that. And I've always been passionate about helping people learn. I've enjoyed the idea of turning over. Things and to sort of digestible, ideas and concepts for people, for them to function in their roles.
But over time that had really evolved into a combination of leadership. So leading teams and then also developing leaders and leadership development programs. And then in most recent, my most recent role and, and through my research and growth, and also just having the opportunity and great leaders, who've sort of pushed me forward.
I've had the opportunity to then also get into diversity, equity and inclusion I've really appreciated recognizing that While diversity equity and inclusion is, you know, needs to be part of every aspect of an organization. Having it as part of the talent programming and also part of the leadership development is an important place to start because I, I I'm a firm believer that leaders have a huge impact on how inclusive spaces for their hopefully diverse employee base.
[00:05:19] Lisa: Well, absolutely. And, and, you know, I think talent management is, you know, when I say talent management, it's encompassing organization development, learning development training, per se, knowledge management and you know, in human resources because it's, it really it depends on the organization talent management leader.
You know, with anybody who has responsibility for developing the growth and potential of others in their organization. Right. So it's really lifting them up. And when you say. It's a great home for DEI. I could not agree more because I see talent management is really at the center of, you know, embedding language and systems that create meaningful, positive behavioral change, right.
And, and drives performance. So, I think it's really interesting that you mentioned that, So you're in this wonderful space. And I know you told me in the green room earlier that you actually spearheaded the development of this new focus area for Rivera before the pandemic started. And before, you know, all of the really tough stuff the world experienced in 2020 with this awakening about, about racial injustice and so on.
Tell me a little bit about where you started back in January 20, 20, you know, what was the impetus and where do you begin? And especially given that we didn't have that giant wake-up call just yet.
[00:06:37] Cheryl: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well at the start. Oh, and one of the things that's always been sort of a challenge for many people, I shouldn't even say just for me, is getting an understanding of. W, you know, in an organization you might hear, well, we're diverse. I think we're doing pretty well. Right.
And that's very often the messaging from the leadership. And so kind of getting, getting your foot in to say we are doing well and there's more we can do. And in fact, there might be some spaces where we're not doing great and we don't even know about it yet. And so, you know, at the start of 2020, it was really all about building a multi-year strategy for diversity inclusion and belonging.
And then also partnering with you know, the overall talent management team to look at how that incorporates with wellbeing, just recognizing, you know, the intersection of the two. And that one can't really exist with the other. And so that's really what we started. And we started at looking at, so, you know, Certainly inclusive leader behaviors as, as a priority.
So starting there but then also looking at things like, you know, some of those systemic barriers that might exist and what, you know, what does our demographic look like? and the mix of that, not just overall for the organization, but at various levels you know, where might we implement some training and, and just, we really developed sort of, you know, we started with a three-year plan.
What were some of the obvious things that we really needed to get started with. And also, what did we have doing a bit of a survey of what didn't we already have in place in such a huge organization where, you know, we had sites or how did they have sites across the country? You know, there are certainly some things that people are doing that are really great, that we want to, foster and encourage even more.
[00:08:10] Lisa: it's interesting to have that three-year view. Right. And, and also I heard this acknowledgement that there were some things really working great. And it's not like anybody saying no, like that doesn't
[00:08:20] Cheryl: right?
[00:08:21] Lisa: where do we go from here? So it's really, you know, what are the biggest opportunities and starting with those.
So you mentioned this idea of inclusive leader behaviors. And we also talked a bit about that earlier off off screen, off recording. Would you walk us through a little bit what those are? what would you and I see leaders doing if they're being inclusive in their beginning?
[00:08:45] Cheryl: Yeah. I mean, one of the big things I hear and know from working with so many leaders is we have a lot of people who are inclusive in their heart and intent, and might not realize how. Through their behavior, they can kind of broadcast what's in their heart and intent. And as a person of color as a woman you know, and all the other things that I identify as part of my experience, you know, one of the things I I know and recognize is that it, it does take a certain amount of courage from me and from other people in marginalized communities to get.
Where somebody stands if we don't know. So inclusive leader behavior is really all about, first of all, for somebody who does want to be an, is an inclusive, you know, would like to be an inclusive space create inclusive spaces, starting with their approach. And some self-reflection to say, you know, how visible am I?
How do I show up? You know, what are some of the gaps that I have in terms of my own. You know, what is, what does my friend and social and network group look like? And where am I? I need to be more proactive to learn more about the experiences of others. And so a little bit of self-reflection there. And then from there also recognizing that if I'm not visibly inclusive, I'm actually not in.
Right. So if, when I go to conferences or meetings, or when people see me around the office and the world where we're in offices if they see me and they don't, you know, they don't get some signals from the people that I connect with, that I'm comfortable with. People who don't look, feel, speak, and talk like me and all of the things that, you know then that's.
Right. You know, are there opportunities on my social media pages, you know, to share things that aren't sort of uniform and look and feel, and really kind of looking at that and saying, what does, what does that really look like? what are the groups I engage with? What are the things that I share?
What are the things that I celebrate, right. And, and things like that. So that's the visibility piece. What are my actions? if I see something, do I say something? Do I say something? Even if I don't think somebody in the room would be necessarily offended. Right? So if there's something where I feel like, you know, I need to raise my hand and say that, and I'm not comfortable with the language that you're using, or I'm not comfortable with the way you're speaking to this person.
Or, you know, do I do that as a leader? Even if I don't think anybody in the room. Mine's because somebody is always looking right. What language do I use and how do I use that language? You know? So if I'm using a term that you know, I use, I use, for example one of the first things I'll say is if I, if I don't know all the letters of LBGTQ I a plus, or if I'm not sure which letters I should use, then I better own it.
That that's me and not laugh. And say LGBT, you know, whatever, whatever, because, you know, that's kind of diminishing the experience and the same goes for anything else that sort of, I'm uncomfortable with me to own my discomfort and not put it on, the other. And then a big one is response to conflict, right?
So how do I respond when I see conflict? How do I respond when I see a dominant voice, maybe using that dominance to own a room. And so there are a number of things that we can do and probably a number of things that people do already. And it's just a matter of sort of being physical.
In those, in those areas and really showing up the way that you want people to see you. Because very often, like I said, the heart is there, but nobody knows it. Right.
And
[00:12:27] Lisa: Yeah, it's not going to surface and that's something you, you know, think about, you know, I know a lot of leaders, I, I coach and, and I, and I facilitate, I'm exposed to lots of different leaders and I know they are all good people I don't have currently. I can't like I, nobody is. Nobody is mean-spirited nobody wants to offend think there's fear out there that they will offend.
So I think it causes people to, to clam up a little bit in some cases, depending on the experience or background There's really good intentions out there. And so it really struck me when I said, well, so for people that are already feel like they've got that heart and that intention and that awareness of gaps and that willingness and desire to do better, where do they start?
And you had said really clearly, it's that visibility
[00:13:11] Cheryl: yeah. And I would say another thing, like you you've touched on something really important. There is. Sometimes our own fear of doing the wrong, doing or saying the wrong thing holds us back. And those are moments where we as leaders really have to have some leadership, courage to say, you know, if I'm feeling discomfort, first of all, let me take myself back to my approach.
So I've got to go back. That discomfort is an indicator that I've got some work to do, and I can do that work over time. I can, you know, we're so lucky I can go on Instagram and I can find communities and then I can, you know, then find something I like, and I can go into a rabbit hole and suddenly, you know, my feed is giving me a much more diverse.
Experience on anything, you know, and I can do the same with TV and YouTube and all the different resources we have out there. So that's sort of the long-term when I feel that discomfort. And I say, me as a leader, Ooh, there's something you need to get comfortable with. The problem is not fear or how that person might react.
The problem is, oh, I, I'm not as exposed, you know, to this as I, as I need to be in, I have some work to do so that's sort of the longterm. And then in the moment, rather than kind of avoiding the situation, maybe it's a little bit of courage on my part to own that discomfort and do it anyway.
And maybe there are some consequences of part of those consequences might be to say, you know, I'm so sorry. I think I got that wrong. I'll do better or it might just be to say, I'm gonna connect with this person on a human level. I'm going to connect with them on the topic that we're meeting on.
I'm going to find connection with this person or with the situation. I'll take a bit of the risk that truthfully and I have, take ownership and responsibility for saying this, taking a bit of the risk that marginalized groups take every day and every space that we exist. and that's, that's a bit of a hard truth, but I think it's one that these leaders that we're speaking about, the, just the step of taking that risk is so impactful and meaningful.
It, it will take it's leaps and bounds. Yeah.
[00:15:20] Lisa: and it's interesting, cause you know, in, in your language here, there's so much around, you know, stepping into the discomfort have encouraged to take these small risks that are meaning meaningful and to own.
Our discomfort. And, you know, the quote that I'm immediately reminded of is Bernay brown rice, courage over comfort,
[00:15:38] Cheryl: Yes. Yeah,
[00:15:39] Lisa: it anyways.
[00:15:40] Cheryl: yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:15:42] Lisa: And I think, I think we all recognize, like that's a really valid, desire and yet it's, it's hard to do. It's hard. It doesn't really, it belies how difficult it can be. Right without some real intentionality.
[00:15:56] Cheryl: Yeah. And I guess one thing I'll add here is the benefit of one of the many benefits of the time we're in is there are a lot of people using their voice to say things and to post things and to share stories. And, there are things everywhere. And so if some of the discomfort is in, how do I say it? I'll say sharing and amplifying voices is a great place to sell. And, a real experience that we had at Riviera was, if I were speaking at a town hall,
or some anybody else that I was working with would present on a topic related to diversity inclusion and belonging, and a senior leader, you know, our CEO, our SVP of HR and communications, anybody who would sort of at the end of that, say, Thank you so much.
That was a really important message. And here's what I'm doing, or here's what I learned. Wow. The power of that, because what we would immediately see after that is other leaders at other levels saying, oh, our CEO. Doesn't didn't just give her the space to have to speak that message, but also is saying, and I have some work to do or some learning, or I'm taking this on, or I've never heard this before, or, you know, showing some transparency and if he's doing it, I better do it.
So the amplification it, it's still courageous. I believe but it's also you know, you don't have to have all the right things to say, put somebody else up there. we had somebody present during pride month and just speak to some of her experiences and the voice that, that gave to somebody across the country to say, you know, in a public town hall forum or it was a divisional webinar forum.
Thanks for saying this, you know, I had somebody once tell me, I should consider not putting up a pride flag. And for the, the leader support, they had never asked the question. They never challenged that they had been challenged on that because they'd never visibly seen the senior leadership team support.
So they weren't sure where they. So the applicant amplification of voices, the support for messages, the reposting of things, right? The sharing of things. It takes a little bit less. And in fact, it's, it's a quicker turnaround than some of the work that we can all do to recognize our biases and to understand the correct language.
But that's some of that visibility, right? I'm visibly supportive of this. I don't mean need to get it right all the time to be supportive.
[00:18:28] Lisa: Yeah. That's important point. Thank you. So if we S we relate this to leadership in talent management.
So whether it's HR or it's L and D you know, so let's say, there's somebody listening who, regardless of whether they are racialized or not, but they're, they're kind of on their own, you know, they might have a big or small team, but they are not able budget wise approval wise to bring in a consultant or somebody like yourself.
You who really knows what she's talking about has done that work has resources. So they're sort of thinking, okay, I think I've got. You know, my act together in terms of what I'm trying to do to be visible and supportive and amplify those voices. And I really want to help my organization do that. And the leaders around me, I want to support them in that way.
Where do they start? What are some ideas?
[00:19:15] Cheryl: Yeah.
I mean, it's a great question. One of the big things I try to emphasize is being a great leader. Takes most of the steps or being a good leader, it takes most of the steps that being an inclusive leader takes as well. Right. So using positive language, listening, getting to know your people, having quality conversations, asking questions, having concern for someone's overall wellbeing.
These are things that every leader, and most leadership training, encourages people to do and also create inclusive spaces. In a lot of ways, right? I mean, so that is one of the things I try to emphasize as much as possible, you know, whether it be one of our foundational leadership programs was situational leadership at Riviera
[00:20:08] Lisa: Oh, love it.
Yep.
[00:20:10] Cheryl: and so we would, as much as I would talk about inclusive leader behaviors, I would also talk about, you know, assessing competency.
And recognizing some of what might limit someone's motivation or confidence on a topic or on a task might be how inclusive of spaces. Right? So it's just sort of integrating that, those things sort of being a good human, being a good leader. Sort of step one to being an inclusive leader and creating inclusive spaces through all of the talent management processes.
And then another thing that can sort of. Be done with sort of limited resources and actually should be done very often as a start is looking at what are some of the baseline things that we should look at, like are higher, you know, whatever part of talent management is, whether it's recruiting or hiring, or if it's talent reviews or if it's, total rewards, whatever space that is and look at like, can I, can I do a little.
Sort of surface level or review here of, how inclusive this space is. Right. And, and so to take a step back and look at what might be some of the gaps or what might be some of the barriers to this, being a space for everyone.
[00:21:21] Lisa: Well, and so when you said that, I was like, yeah, I think that's really interesting. So it's almost like. You don't have to be an expert to make a step it's looking at the systems, the processes, and sort of saying, okay, open heart, open mind, where might we be allowing unconscious bias to creep in, for instance, like the example that came to mind immediately when you were just speaking was, There's a company.
Don't ask me who now this is, I wish I could recall where they implemented. So I've led talent, acquisition, many places, but I thought, oh, so I'm fascinated reading about different approaches. What they did was they created or implemented or bought a software to replace their ATS that was capable of, hiding names.
And even, I think some companies or schools, maybe, I don't know, but, but to try to make it more anonymous so that they could assess, you know, high level on experience and knowledge that kind of surfaced from reading the resume without, any noise, you know, because it gives again, There is noise that we don't notice, right?
Like, oh, how do you say that name? Oh, it's going to be like, who knows what goes through people's mind? And I don't think anybody's, you know, generally trying to be malicious or exclusive, and yet we know it happens.
[00:22:38] Cheryl: Yes. Yeah. And another big part, you know, as you're speaking is just to ask people, right. Like sort of You know, when I hear at one of the first things I hear, when I say, you know, why, don't, why don't we ask people what barriers are seeing? And there's a discomfort with, well, I don't want to ask just all the people who are visibly, you know, so then they feel like they've been tokenized.
And I say, no, like just say, this is something you're trying to do, start doing it. And then just notice how many people raise their hands and say, by the way, did you notice this? Are you aware that we've missed this? Making it clear that you, we are as an organization authentically wanting to look into and improve on these things in the last year, you know, between, myself and working closely with the communications team at Riviera and and the marketing team and the operations division.
The number of things that people started to raise. And that's very often a fear with going down this road is when people are going to start to raise things, that's kind of what we want. And when they know, you know, we're not, I will certainly not the, if you were relying on me to think of everything that we need to do around diversity, equity and inclusion, you will be sorely disappointed.
Right? We want people to start saying, Hey, when I applied for this position, somewhere along the lines, asked me my gender and only gave me here uh, male or female. And sometimes, you know, people are surprised. Like we are our teams that what not should the house. Because we didn't set that.
Right. Oh, Okay, Well, where did it happen? Right. There's things we don't even know. We wouldn't know a leader somewhere, across the country told somebody that maybe they shouldn't, you know, put up a pride flag. We're not going to know that until we say, look, we're looking to do this and we start doing it.
And then people say, oh, They want to do better. Let me tell them some places. And they'll they'll most often say it, not angrily, but with intention of helping us to do better.
[00:24:45] Lisa: Okay, so this is critical. the phrase that kind of come up, came up for me just now it's this idea that, it's about doing better, not calling people out,
[00:24:58] Cheryl: No,
[00:24:58] Lisa: right? Like it's not about catching people, doing things wrong.
[00:25:02] Cheryl: no. It's giving opportunities to do it, right?
[00:25:05] Lisa: Yeah. the positioning though is super important. So you said, why don't we ask people what barriers they're seeing and, and that, as we know, needs assessment, hello, right. Is, is, is the basis of really understanding, you know, what are the needs? We're all agreeing needs. Reached if we do some kind of learning or talent initiative, right?
Like, cause there's the old, problem of, you know, the department head comes to you and says, okay, these people aren't performing in this area, fix it. Right. Train them, learn them something. You know, and so it begins with a questions let's ask, like what, what are you seeing? Like what, what are you not seeing?
And so on. What I think gets missed. And I, and I know you've got coach training as well. When I work with leaders, it's, it's teaching them how to do the positioning, provide the context and then offer the question and open question, because that context, like what you've been describing is so critical to how people respond emotionally.
[00:26:02] Cheryl: Yeah. So the messaging has really been, what I have found has been the most impactful and beneficial messaging is to start with knowing who am I trying to reach? And that is going to give me. The, the intention will come through in my messaging appropriately. So if I kind of come into work around diversity equity inclusion saying, cause I know there's that one person out there and I'm going to fix them and I'm going to, they're not going to have a welcome space here.
You know, people like that do, there are people who exist in every organization who maybe are not onboard. Right? Yeah. I will say, and every place I've worked there have been people like that. Right. But that's not who I am trying to reach in my messaging. And in fact, what I'm looking to do is to foster a space that is so inclusive and where, where that is one of the values that is so tangible in the organization, that it would be uncomfortable to be there for those who were not on board. Move themselves away. Whether that is over time, because you know, their leadership has assessed on or they're, you know, employee engagement is assessed on how inclusive or because they say this baloney, they're talking about, you know, whatever and they move somewhere else. But if the intention is to reach, and to foster inclusion, And to find what exists and to enhance that, to find, you know, what doesn't exist yet, but we'll, we're gonna make happen.
Then that comes through in the messaging and it creates a space where people who maybe are the ones in leadership roles who have the work to do feel it's, work that they can do. And work. That is part of being who they are and functioning in their role, as opposed to a thing on the side of my desk, that's a list of things I can and can't say, or, or whatever the case may be, you know, and truthfully, you know, part of it is also recognizing that for some people, we'll say the first few months. One of the things that would come to me is what does this mean for me? Like, cause they really don't have a sense of what creating an inclusive space will look like or what diversity equity inclusion will look like. And there's a bit of a fear of there's going to be a big, like binder full of new things I have to do.
Right. And it's, and that's not the case, you know, I want you to continue to be. And to do this, these other things and to, and to, if there are changes in processes, they'll probably improve experiences overall. They'll probably improve processes overall. They'll probably make your job better, right.
They'll make, and you know, it's Aqua talent acquisition. It might broaden your pool, make things a lot easier for you. You might find new talent that you weren't aware of before. And so, there's a lot of. Kind of setting intention in uh, diversity inclusion of belonging or DEI sort of strategy for those who are involved in it in terms of, you know, how do I want my message to come across as you, as you.
[00:29:12] Lisa: it's really, it's really a fascinating area, you know, and I think that people might be sort of surprised that the, the answer is so much. Around being a good person, being visible, being aware and never kind of slowing down around that, you know, it's, creating and maintaining momentum around it so that, it's striving for doing things better, again, not catching people, doing things wrong and you, you know, creating that inclusive space.
So when you think about. The concept I'm fascinated by, by the area of influence and buy in, because I think for talent management leaders, this can be an area really fraught with difficulty complexity. So as it relates to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, what would you say is the most important, you know, technique when it comes to influence?
[00:30:01] Cheryl: As a leader in DEI,
[00:30:03] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:30:04] Cheryl: I would say for me, I think it would be different based on who is introducing this and where they're introducing it.
What I find is my superpower and getting buy in on these types of initiatives is first of all, building relationships and credibility as a trusted advisor for the leadership team, and then making sure that it's very clear that. What I'm looking to do is add value, not take away from all of the other business objectives and initiatives that they have on the go. This is to add value to the world. That, whether it's culinary or finance or whatever team, you know, whatever work you doing, this is to add value to it, not to take away or to take time.
And that is something that comes through listening, hearing, being open to understanding, what is this person's concerns around these programs, initiatives asks of their leaders that I'm introducing, Not so that I can adjust necessarily what I'm doing or soften the message because I take a strong responsibility for not you know, watering down what needs to be done, but so I can understand what those concerns are and speak to how this addresses those concerns or how this, you know, how actually that concern don't worry about it.
That's not impacted. Right. but to really be open to hearing that, before moving forward, I will say part of that as well. And I have experienced this is where there is an actual roadblock that is not accepting or seeing value in diversity equity inclusion. And, to the extent that, you know, Might even be problematic too.
I take it as a personal responsibility as a leader who is responsible for diversity and equity inclusion, to say that that's what I see. So if it's not about, you know, if, if, if I hear you, I just want us to be politically correct or, you know, we're gonna, you know, offend people and make them feel like bad people.
I will speak to that. And it will speak to you know, how that my message might not have been heard or understood, or, you know, I'll try to address that. But if that's more of a, sort of a foundational belief that somebody has, it's my responsibility to say, well, unfortunately that is not something that I can access.
This is work that we have to do. And I'm not concerned with the discomfort of those who are in positions of power and privilege. that is the responsibility of a leader of diversity equity inclusion, where it's nicely supported is if the senior leaders or, and other leaders in the room.
Stand beside or in front of that voice and back it up which I have experienced that, and that has been fantastic.
[00:33:12] Lisa: Yeah, well, it's courage and action right there.
And people recognize that. I think, I think generally, you know, and, and do you want to get behind it beside it in front? You know what I mean? Be part of that. So, yeah, it's very powerful. So let's, you know, we've wow. I cannot believe how the time has fallen.
I always say that, but it's true. We, we clearly could talk for hours about this and other things. The one question that I like to ask all my guests is, a reflective one. So if you think about all that you've learned and experienced in our field over the years, what would you say is your biggest lesson?
[00:33:48] Cheryl: Oh, I would say early in my career.
If I were in a room, I thought if I were in a room and I saw an opportunity, or there was something that needed to be done or, you know, there was something needed to be said. My thought would be, if they asked me, I'll do it. If they ask me, I'll give my opinion. You know, if they ask me, then I'll step up to the plate for that, where I am now and where I have been for, you know, in recent history.
Of my career and what has really transformed my career is not to wait for that, but to use my voice and recognize that my voice and every voice is uniquely important. And so. I've been very fortunate to have people who've said, Cheryl, what do you think? Or Cheryl, let's have you do this. But I don't wait for that anymore.
It raised my voice. I raised my hand. I offer my services, and that has been not just pivotal in terms of the opportunities that have opened up for me. It's also changed how engaged and excited I am about the work that I do and what I get to do every day.
[00:34:56] Lisa: Well, you know, it's agency, you know, and control over your choice. You're choosing, you're choosing that excitement and that, that engagement.
Yeah. Yeah. I've I really showing up every day. Well, thank you so much for for being with me here today. And I think people are singing are going to get a tremendous amount of value.
I know I did. And I want to thank you very much.
[00:35:17] Cheryl: Thanks, Lisa. This has been awesome. I really appreciate you.
[00:35:21] Lisa: My pleasure.
