[00:00:00] Lisa: Welcome back to talent management truths. As we head into the third year of the pandemic, the world is exhausted and there's been massive disruption to our lives life and work now intersect much differently and talent leaders and their teams have a tremendous opportunity to help organizations navigate.
Both the challenges and the opportunities in this new environment. According to my guest today, talent management teams are necessary and I couldn't agree more. My guest is Alison Whitely. Alison is senior vice president of human resources, global talent management at Franklin Templeton. She lives in St.
Petersburg. In this role, she partners directly with executives on key talent opportunities. And since 2016, she has overseen organizational development, learning and talent acquisition goals. She and her team helped shape who the company is through their role as cultural architects. I love that in her long career at Franklin, Alison was also an HR business partner for various lines of business at the executive level.
And she's known for her relationship building skills. I worked with Allie over a decade ago when we were global peers as HR business partners, I was always blown away back then by how genuine articulate kind and engaging she is. And I still am. Thanks for listening.
Hello, and welcome to the show. Allie, I'm delighted to be here with you to.
[00:03:11] Allyson: Hey, Lisa, I'm so delighted to be here with you and to.
see you again. It's awesome.
[00:03:16] Lisa: Well, it's like old home week, right? I mean, we haven't, we haven't spoken in person since well, it's 12 years or 10 years, really? Since, since I left Franklin Templeton and we used to have all of those regular video meetings and talk about our shared clients. So it's, it's really great to just catch up a little bit with you in the green room and to have you here.
Cause I know there's all kinds of nuggets of wisdom. You're going to share with us today.
[00:03:39] Allyson: Oh, man. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. And I cannot believe how long it's been, but it's amazing to see you and it's been amazing to follow your journey and everything that you've been up to.
[00:03:50] Lisa: Yeah, it's neat to see, see the twists and turns people take on their career journeys, right. And what they decide to do and dabble in and so forth, so forth. Well, so let's maybe begin by, it would be really helpful if you could tell the listeners a little bit about what you do at Franklin Templeton as.
Senior vice president of global talent management.
[00:04:10] Allyson: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's always such an interesting question. And I think that, in tactical terms, my role looks after our organizational development, which is interventional, but also programmatic things like sentiment, performance management. I also look after learning and developments or formal and informal learning programs.
And I look after talent acquisition in this role as well. But I think what really. I'm excited about the work that I do is I have just in my team, we have this tremendous opportunity to help shape the organization through the talent programs and practices that we bring and the people that we bring into the organization.
And I tell my team all the time we're cultural architects. Like we get to sit in our seat and through every hire. Through every program, we deploy every learning event. We get to help shape who Franklin Templeton is. And, you know, I joke with my boss. I think I've got the best seat at her table. It's a really amazing position to get to be in and have that kind of impact on the organization.
[00:05:17] Lisa: Oh you. Well, first of all, thank you for that. Mike drop moment. Cultural architects.
[00:05:23] Allyson: We try.
[00:05:25] Lisa: That is a beautiful, beautiful metaphor really? Right. Because it's about building, it's creating it's it's artistry, it's science, it's, it's all, all that.
So you've got a very large portfolio. How many employees are there now globally with Franklin?
[00:05:38] Allyson: So in the parent, we're around 8,500 and then we have some investment managers who are specialists, who sort of sit outside of the parent. And there's a couple more thousand of this.
[00:05:48] Lisa: I see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Wonderful. Well, so I thought maybe what we could do is begin with talking a little bit about some of the things you've been working on when it comes to innovation, because I know that you really have. A clear eyed view to how you see innovation at play within the area of talent practices.
[00:06:08] Allyson: Yeah, I think, I think we're fortunate and that we have had a tremendous opportunity to do that. So a little bit of background about Franklin over the past handful of years in February of 2020. So blast, like right before the pandemic really settled in, we announced a deal to acquire Legg Mason, and this was one of the largest deals in the industry.
And so then a few weeks later, Rust into the pandemic and really what, what my team was up to during that period of time was on the one hand we were rolling out a brand new performance management system. So nothing like a little chaos and all of the sudden, and at the time we were about 10,000 employees.
I didn't go home to throw an interesting dynamic into the launch of a, of significant program, like performance management. But we also were beginning to think about how were we going to bring these two organizations together? You know, how were we going to go through this integration? Which, which I would say Lisa, from a deal announcement to close was a handful of months.
It was pretty quick by Franklin standards. So, so how would we support all of these leaders in redesigning? Making numerous talent choices sort of re staffing the organization if you will. And so I think when I think about innovation on the performance management side, looking back there couldn't have been a better time for us to launch our performance management system, because we were shifting away from sort of the traditional, you know, you've got your two pages you fill out in Workday, and then you get your, your rating at the end of the year towards.
Uh, Much more continuous conversations based approach supported by technology where leaders and employees would have the opportunity at multiple points during the year to give one another feedback in a really tangible way, and then sit and have conversations around that. And so, you know, again, looking back and thinking my goodness.
We really couldn't have launched that at a better time. We launched it right. As folks were leaving their physical spaces, feeling disconnected, needing to feel that connection and hear how they're doing and understand how to tune or adjust. And so we, we stood that program up for the first time in April of 2020.
And it's just been phenomenal to see what it's done for our organization.
[00:08:32] Lisa: Well, and it's, I do have a little bit insight into the program and I thought, you know, Pretty Pretty cool stuff. So maybe you could walk us through a little bit, you know, some of the listeners, you, you, you're probably familiar with, the move from traditional annual performance reviews over the last few years.
Like I remember 2013 or 14 researching this, going to hear David rock speak of the NeuroLeadership Institute, who I know you've worked with with them. And you know, really talking about how we need to move away from. Onerous annual or bi-annual process that takes all this energy and time. And it's really time sucking and energy sucking for employees and leaders alike.
How do we make it simpler? How do we blend it into the day to day? Right. So people are getting the support more just in time. So perhaps you could tell us a little bit about what were the key pieces that you decided to put in place.
[00:09:25] Allyson: Oh, Yeah. absolutely. You know, and so I think I'll start at the beginning when we first started poking around at this concept of maybe needing to do something different. And I believe one of your guests, Sherry Dondo, my old partner in crime, we partnered together on this project, which was also really, really cool as an aside, but we wanted to really create an environment where.
You know, leaders were able to sit down and get out of the day-to-day, what their employees and hit the pause button and have meaningful conversation. And that employees, likewise had something in our organization. They didn't always have the opportunity to do, which was to give direct feedback to their leader with that same level of frequency.
And so, as we were building the program, one thing that I think, you know, we did, and we do. With all of our programmatic builds, it's really important was we started with empathetic design. So we didn't just want to sit in the room and assume that we, as the HR folks really understood what was malfunctioning and that old performance process.
So we went out and conducted a number of empathy, interviews and focus groups to hear from leaders and employees about their experiences with the process. And one of the things that really stuck with me, one of our employees said it sucks that I only get to find out how I'm doing once a day. And that just sort of broke my heart.
Right? Like, and, and again, you can interpret that how you will, I'm positive. This employee had a leader who was having conversations with them regularly, but what's the content. Is it the operational issue of the day, or is it the, how are you doing? Here's where I see you're doing really Well, Here's where I want to support your growth.
And so from those empathy interviews, we went into the lab, so to speak and we started designing. And what we knew that we wanted to create was. A flexible system. It had to be lightweight. It could not take a ton of time from leaders or employees because Lisa, we, we did the math on ours in our old performance management system.
And it was millions of dollars. We were spending millions of dollars and man hours on a program that probably wasn't getting the outcome we wanted anyway. So we didn't want to do. So we built in and we partnered with neuro leadership Institute on this piece and they were phenomenal partners. What we created was two surveys.
If you will, sort of feedback loops between the employee and their leaders. And the leader and the employee and those in our vision would happen with regular frequency during the course of the fiscal year. So that the employee and the leader sort of had that nudge to say, Hey, take a pause, take a time out, have this conversation with one another.
And, oh, by the way, because we heard from our employees in the empathy interviews, have it be something tangible, like, can I have a piece of paper or something I can hold that shows me. How I'm doing. So we also built out some really nifty reporting to support those conversations. Almost like you have a place snap between you and your boss.
And so we launched that in April as I mentioned of 2020, and we've been tinkering with it ever, ever since we've gotten some great feed, it's so important to stay in that. The design seat. We've gotten tremendous feedback from our leaders and employees about what's working and places we could tune or adjust.
We're actually in one of those feedback cycles right now, trying on a few new things based on that feedback. And I think one of the things that's been the most remarkable about this journey for me and my team is, is first. You know, we're not mandating these pulses. We're strongly recommending them. And our participation levels are really high.
Like they're staying up in the nineties. Second, the thing that is so impressive to me is when we look at our sentiment data, we're seeing that our employees who are getting this continuous feedback feel better about the organization, obviously better about their leader, but better about their fit at Franklin than employees.
Get the participation in the process. And so the proof is sort of in the pudding as we're seeing it now, in terms of how it really is supporting those connection points between leaders and employees.
[00:13:27] Lisa: Well, congratulations. On a couple of fronts, first of all, having the courage to put it in place and also doing it in, in, a really thoughtful way. This concept of empathetic design is really appealing. And I'm sure I just want to really emphasize that because. For listeners, you know, that would be something to really reflect on it.
If you're not already doing it, you know, what does it mean to you, to your organization? What could it bring if you were to start applying it? And what does it mean? I was wondering too, if you could tell us a little bit about when you say continuous, how many times is that?
[00:14:00] Allyson: Yeah, it's one of the things that we've been playing with Lee. So initially we went out thinking let's just do this three times over the course of the fiscal year and see how that goes. And we got some feedback actually after our first year, that feels like a lot. Can we maybe do it two times because in our process, and I think, you know, in, in many organizations they've gone, gone away from ratings.
We haven't done that. We still think it's important for that to happen. As part of our process, it helps us, you know, understand differentiation between employees. It's a necessary, necessary thing. So we want it to also leave space for that sort of capstone conversation that would happen at the end of the year.
So what we're trying on this year based on feedback from our leaders and employees is could we do two of those pulse cycles plus the end of the year conversation. So we've gone from sort of four to three and I'll keep you posted how that works for us.
[00:14:54] Lisa: Sound sounds good. I'm interested to see. So, so in terms of you know, cause you mentioned earlier about what you were trying to do here was kind of rethink performance management and pair it with technology. Right? So you see how you
could leverage that. So when you talk about the piece of paper that the employees want, like, how does that show up?
Technology-wise how is this tracked? I just want to just. Put a bow around this a little bit before we move on. So interesting.
[00:15:18] Allyson: It's a great question. So we Really, tried to build, and again, coming from that empathetic design, we wanted to have a clean user experience. And so we we're using Workday as the, as the basis for this program. They've been phenomenal technology partners to us, by the way, we do a lot in Workday. And so what the employee will receive, you know, once the leader has.
As had a chance to answer their survey for that survey window, the employee will get a little nudge from Workday, letting them know that they have, we call it an employee performance pulse. So your employee performance pulse is available. And then I can just go into Workday and open it up and schedule that conversation.
My leader or have that quick conversation in my next one-on-one and it works the same way for leaders, you know, so long as they get a minimum number of responses, because we want to give the employees some anonymity in the process, they get the same nudge. They get the same report and they can sit down and have that conversation.
[00:16:12] Lisa: Really, really interesting. Okay. Thank you for sharing that example.
[00:16:16] Allyson: No, no.
[00:16:17] Lisa: another thing that, that too, that's coming up for me. You know, when we go back to this idea of empathetic design and design thinking, and you, you talked about going into the lab, which is such a great metaphor. Let's go in and kind of work this, you know, based on the data and what we learned.
Where else are you applying that particular approach
in your portfolio?
[00:16:36] Allyson: It's a good question. I want to say everywhere to varying
degrees. I don't see how you can sit in a seat like ours as talent management leaders and not start with your end user or your client or your customer insert your word of the day. There. You have to start with. What really is life like for them?
What do they need out of what I'm trying to build? I think one of the, one of the things that I've seen happen and I've been guilty of, if I'm being honest as a talent management practitioner, is we can get a bit tied up in what we see in the latest buzz word or what we think we know from our seat of expertise.
But the reality is my experience. Isn't the same experiences, the 8,500 plus employees at Franklin Templeton. Some parts of it are shared. Some parts might be unique. And so what we try to do from our perspective is begin any what I would describe as like a build. With our end users in mind, and whether that's interviews, whether it's focus groups, whether it's other data that we might already have, like information from our listening strategy, we pull that into the round to really test what it is we think we're solving for what it is we think we're trying to achieve.
And it absolutely informs our design. And, and I think the other thing that shifted for us is. It's encouraged us to take a more iterative approach, which has been fantastic. We don't have to feel the pressure of having to get an, a, having to get a hundred, having to get it. Exactly right. Perfect. Is the enemy of good?
I think we truly believe that. And so taking that. Empathetic design approach allows us to really say to our clients, we want this to be for you. We're going to hear from you. And then we're going to come play back what we're doing and you tell us better or worse. Are we, are we getting closer to what you need?
And I think that's been really transformative to my team. I think they feel. You know, so connected to the business in a way that sometimes in a center of expertise, we don't get to feel and it's shaped our, our programs, everything from how we identify potential to how we plan for succession, to how we hire and how we onboard employees.
[00:18:49] Lisa: yeah. The iterative approach, very agile, right. Which is, which has been a term for quite a while, right. The whole, you know, agile management, you know, coming from the it world and making its way across all, all facets of industry, the iteration piece, you know, When I, when I teach or mentor folks through, you know, sort of, I do thought partner work with talent management leaders.
And we talk about when you're, you know, there's needs assessment, which is
kind of what you're talking about here, but with this
empathetic lens being really deliberate around that, but it's. There's such a a relief, like you said, but also this trust, that builds when you're saying here's what you told me.
So I'm coming back and I'm saying, here's what I'm thinking. Here's some options. Let's talk about those
realistically. How might they land? Okay. You don't like that. You like that. Oh, now you're thinking this. Okay, great. Let me take that away. And I'm going to iterate some more and then I'm going to come back.
So it's this back and forth. And so when you set the stage that way and say this isn't going to be a one and done where I go away and magically make this incredible huge program appear and we put it in place seamlessly. Was there a complaints, right. And everybody loves it. This is going to be kind of a dance back and forth to make sure we get it right.
And that I'm interpreting that our team is figuring it out. So I really appreciate how you said too, that it's helped your team, you know, which is this center of excellence slightly behind the scenes, connected to the business through this approach.
[00:20:16] Allyson: Yeah, a hundred percent and I think it's also helped unlock creativity. Lisa, I really do, because, you know, as you
talked about, you know, I think sometimes we can feel the pressure. I mean, I'm going to be honest. This is a large organization. It's global, we're in many countries. We have many lines of business.
We all feel the pressure to get it right, and to get it right as soon as possible in the first time. But what I've noticed in my leadership is when I take that pressure off of my team and say, we're going to get it as much of the way there as we can, based on what we know. And it does not have to be perfect.
Try bigger things. We tried different things and that has been so cool to see in the team and to see them sort of shift into a more creative space then than maybe what has happened historically.
[00:21:02] Lisa: Oh, that is such a beautiful thing. Just this whole idea of unlocking creativity, right. By
removing some risk and sort of creating, like, you know, this isn't, I think we've been brought up in a corporate culture sort of, you know, the Western culture that you, there's no expectation that you should have to practice.
You should just get it right, right off the bat. it's not realistic. Right. You know? Yeah. W when I, what I facilitate, you know, I have to say like, would you go to see, whatever big cities, orchestra, symphony orchestra would you pay for that experience? If they didn't spend 90% of their time behind the scenes practicing.
Right. But sound terrible. If they didn't have all that time learning to bring it together and make it sound horrible. For
the 10% that they're playing in front of you and and yet in corporate kind of life for a long time, that wasn't the way for the most part. I mean, there's always exceptions, but here there's this, this change of foot, that's really starting to come into its own about, to unlock creativity.
We need to give people license and
And safety comes with it's okay. To have progress over perfection, you know, that kind of thing.
[00:22:11] Allyson: right. That's right. And it comes with the psychological safety of feeling that ongoing to bring it all back to have that ongoing connection to those around you, including including your leader. And I think that it's just been so. Remarkable, you know, for us as we've deployed the program simultaneously to going through this massive integration to really challenge our own organization about, you know, some of the things in our culture.
Like, I love that you're talking about risks just as one example, we're in the asset manager. Business. We, we have accountability to, you know, to, to not just protect, but to grow our client's assets. And, you know, like a lot of our peers in the industry that can create a dynamic where maybe you're a little more risk averse versus risk aware when you're trying to make decisions.
And so I think through, you know, through our work and talent management, through the integration, through the ability to, you know, do simple things by leaning into technology, like saying, we're not going to do this. Survey just once a year, we need to do it way more frequently because of the integration and COVID and the dynamics that everyone is living in right now, we're able to, you know, bring different things to light for our organization and for our leaders that they may need to contend with.
[00:23:28] Lisa: Yeah, it's really, really, really interesting. Well, this, this connection, this sort of shift overall, we were talking about a related but slightly different shift earlier, too, which was for you and I, we both spent a chunk of time. Part of it together has HR business partners. So really, really.
You know, supporting our clients at the frontline and, you know, having that seat at the table with the executive teams and so on. And, and when you go back into more of the talent side, some listeners may relate to this. can be, it can feel a little uncomfortable sometimes because all of a sudden, you, it can feel like you don't have this direct access.
And in many of the organizations I work with, I see that, you know, everything is funneled through the HR business partner group
and so. Sometimes that's a detriment to the talent function. So the learning and Odie teams, right. Because they feel disconnected and they are so, with your empathetic design process and approach, I think you've, you've come, you've been able to combat that a little bit, but tell me about, you know, you had said, like you'd been doing a lot of thinking about how do you scale how you think about your clients when you are now.
You know, not on that direct frontline, but more, a little bit behind the scenes. Can you speak to that for
us?
[00:24:42] Allyson: Yeah, absolutely. and I spent a lot of time in my own head about this, actually, when I was first asked to come out of the business partner role and into the COE role, all admit, like I got off the phone with my then boss at the time who was a phenomenal individual and felt like, oh, What did I do wrong?
Who did I make angry? Like I'm being banished from the land of client-facing folks because in our organization a lot, like you described Lisa, you know, the business partners are the huge conduit, such a critical conduit for us?
to partner with, the business. And so, you know, after I got out of my own head a little bit about it and got sort of my sea legs in, in a COE role, again, what became really true for me was that.
Did have a client. My client was just now the enterprise, the entire organization, every employee in it. And like to call it for myself sort of a click moment, right. Like something's switched on in my brain that said, okay, so this is going to be. Really really interesting. And there's going to be a lot of inherent tensions in this, whether it's managing that tension as many folks in roles like ours have to manage between what does this line want versus what's best for the enterprise?
What does this region want? And I think that it's probably, if I'm being honest, one of the most rewarding parts of the role is to really figure out how do we bring. You know, sustainable programs and practices that fit roughly across 8,500 people without becoming so rigid that we don't meet the nuanced needs that could be playing out in a certain part of our business or on a certain part of the planet.
And that is not an easy thing to, that's not an easy dance to do. It's one of the biggest challenges in, in the role.
[00:26:35] Lisa: So, so what are some ways that you do tackle that some practical ways? Because it is an ongoing challenge with almost every talent person I speak to and certainly in my
own experience, right? Cause you want to design for the enterprise, as you say, not too rigidly. And to be able to respect that there are nuances.
I mean, you know, I
have one coaching client right now and on the thought partner side and she's, you know, dealing with one massive line of business that represents a continent. No, we can't, we're not doing any of that. They want to do it their own way. So it's, it's, it's almost like they're at loggerheads.
It's complete opposite. And yet the directive is we need to get everybody on board to a degree. So what are some thoughts around how you get there?
[00:27:19] Allyson: Yeah. And I'll take tips from anybody else. But I think, I think there is, there's a couple of things that I've found that have worked reasonably Well, I think one be empathetic design. If you can get a good cross section of folks to come along with you, when you're building something versus going into the last.
With our own talent management theory, you are inherently raising the odds that what you come out of that lab with is going to fit across a broad spectrum of your population. Maybe not perfectly, but it's going to get you a significant percentage of the way there. I think the other thing that I have done is especially on large builds, we did this with the performance program.
You get a good cross section of senior folks involved early on and you sort of declare to them, we're trying to build something here. That's got to work for most of us and you all may not see it the same way. And I'm going to put you on the hook to talk about that because, you know, I think sometimes what we can do as heads of talent management is we can take that pressure away and feel like I have to take these 7,000 different perspectives back into a room and figure out how I reconcile that.
We can use leaders in the business to help us to do that. You guys have to get in the ring with me and decide what's the most important thing and where do we yield? You know, but I think the most important thing is to be really clear about what's non-negotiable and what has. At an enterprise or a global level.
And I think sometimes that's the piece that I noticed I've missed in myself and that others I've spoken to have missed. It's like, we may think that we have a list. That's 10 things long about what we have to do the same way, but really if we, if we dig in and we, we challenge ourselves, maybe that list is three things and then you get a lot more room to go in and to work on those nuances and, and think of solutions.
Within the bigger framework where you're not trading off everything, if that makes sense.
[00:29:12] Lisa: Well, it does because you know what went through my head, I was immediately relating you know, when it comes to coaching. And I know you've got your coaching certification as well. It's it's, it's. helping clients boil it down to the bottom line. Like what's the most important thing, what are the three most essential elements we need to honor across the board?
Right. So, really important questions to be asking clients. And so that you can get at, you know, crack that nut about how do we make this work for everybody while making sure you know, that there are slight tweaks or customizations that, that are allowed. And, and that makes sense.
[00:29:50] Allyson: That's right. That's right. And, if we really mean to meet our clients where they're ready, we have to allow some of those customizations. We have to challenge our thinking. You know, I was having a conversation a few months ago, Lisa. With someone on my team about the performance program. And we were getting some feedback from a particular part of the business.
And I noticed that our orientation had sort of slid to, well, no, this is the right way to do it. We just have to convince them this is the right way to do it. And it unlocks a whole different conversation when you're willing to say, well, why, why does this part of our program have to be the same for everyone?
What do we really believe about. What would we lose if it wasn't and can we give a little bit more flexibility? It is a scary thing to ask because it leads to a path where you really do need more time. You might need more resources, but I think really, again, just digging in and challenging. What's the most important thing in this piece of work at hand or in this program where we want to be consistent and how can we play at the margins of the rest of it to get the best outcome for the client who might be more narrow than the whole enterprise?
[00:30:54] Lisa: Yeah, well, and this idea of challenging your own thinking internally as a talent team and, you know, What's the most important piece that we can't lose sight of or let go of,
and then also working with the client to understand how they see it. Right, right. From
the get go, and then that back and forth.
Yeah, really, really key. It's interesting though, isn't it? That, that you can use the same questions when working with your, your own team and yourself, as you can, with the clients who are relying on.
[00:31:20] Allyson: Yeah, actually, it really, it really is. I hadn't made that.
[00:31:23] Lisa: Well, it's, it's like a facilitative process, right. You know, it's because I think we can, operate with blinders on and have our own biases based on our experiences.
What we know has worked in the past and so on, and this is really opening up, like, what if I'm wrong? And I don't need to do it this way, even though I've done it for 25 years in this way, you know,
[00:31:46] Allyson: That's right.
[00:31:46] Lisa: It's it's a bit scary, but it's also exciting.
I think if we focused on the excitement aspect of it, that's probably more important.
[00:31:52] Allyson: It's so exciting. And I think there's, you know, if you look at everything that's happening in the world at large, over the past few years, and, and even for us at Franklin, and then what has happened with our business and with our integration, I think there's a hubris and feeling like folks in our seats can build things and sort of leave them on autopilot anymore.
Things are just changing too quickly. And so we really do have to have this spirit of iteration and what am I missing and what could be different in this? And is this really the best it could be for the moment in time right now? And there is excitement and creativity in that.
[00:32:27] Lisa: Well, my husband the other day. So he's so sweet, right? I think I've got about 16 episodes out now of the podcast. And he's been diligent listening to every single one. He announced to me the other day over coffee that he. I caught up. So it was no current, but he said, you know, something, I was really, touched that he did that, you know, he's genuinely interested.
And he said I really liked how you said in the, in the one episode, how every program has a shelf life
and that's, you know, what we're talking about? Cause I, I, I think that's an important thing to remember. I was like, oh, I said that that's good, but it's true. Right,
Julie Shayda do you remember her? She said that to me way, way back in the day.
And it's always stuck with me. I think there's fear sometimes thinking, oh, this baby that we built and that we took such care to put in place, and it was so much work. There's a bit of fear and disappointment. If at some point it's no longer working, right. We see that all the time people going, no, this is it's gotta be this way.
And yet when we sort of look at it as, oh, it's kind of freeing, what if we could tweak it to work even better, given the people we have now, the environment that's around us and so on.
[00:33:30] Allyson: That's right. That's right. But it can be scary to jump into that. So, you know, we do the best that we can. We, we try to experiment in ways that make sense and, and really just challenge ourselves.
[00:33:42] Lisa: Yeah. Excellent. So, you know, just moving more broadly away from your current current organization, as you look at talent management in general, what do you see as the biggest opportunities for, for talent management leaders going forward in the next.
[00:33:59] Allyson: Oh so many, I don't think there's a better time to be in seats like ours then than right now we are necessary would be my, my headline. But I think if you think about what the pandemic has done to, to us as humans, right? Not even just as a workforce, but as humans. It's been exhausting.
You know, we, we, we look at this on a planetary scale and the reality is we've had our lives massively disrupted. We're heading into the third year of that. How we work has probably changed forever, you know, organizations all over the world trying to figure out how do we come back? What does it mean to come back?
What does it look like? And speaking to that spirit of iteration, we got to get down with iteration on. Because we probably won't get it right the first time, right out of the gate. And I think what it means for employees and for all of us to have our lives intersect with our work, that's changed dramatically in the past three years.
And I think there's something really exciting in that, you know, we get to sort of sift through all of that learning of three years and say, Well, what makes sense? Like for me at a human level, what have I learned about myself and how I want work to mesh to my life at organizational levels? We get to do that too.
What did we believe before all of this? That doesn't feel true for us anymore? What have we learned that we want to carry forward and what's not working in all of this, that, that if we, when we get to a place where we're safe, depending on your location, your country, what have you that. Do something differently with, so I think we have a tremendous opportunity to help organizations really wrestle with issues.
Like how do we come back? Whatever back means, how do we keep culture in this very new environment? That for most of us, isn't gonna feel like what it used to feel like before and how do we help our organizations really keep a finger on the pulse of what our employees are feeling, what they care about and what they need from us.
[00:35:58] Lisa: Yeah. So, you've got such a gift with words, you know, I love the, what doesn't feel true anymore. Right? It's really, this opportunities are to say, okay, so. Things have shifted the ground beneath has, has literally shifted. So what, what does that mean? Right. And always sort of be thinking about that and this idea of how do we keep culture it's back to the cultural architects, you know, that your, that your teams try to be, yeah.
How do we, how do we manage culture, right? How do we nurture it? Create it, build it over time, given we've gone virtual and or hybrid, or, you know, some, some sort like it's, it's all over the map, depending on the organization you're talking.
[00:36:35] Allyson: true.
[00:36:36] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. We don't know what it will look like.
[00:36:38] Allyson: And we really wrestled with that going through the integration, Lisa, because we, you know, you talk about putting your culture to the test, do a massive integration. So we had that with COVID and you know, you think about it. How do you bring. Many new employees into an organization where, and you've worked for Franklin.
So, you know, like, you know, our values, you walk into any one of our buildings and there's been Franklin and all of the values right there on the wall. How do you create that connection when you can't do that? When you don't have that? So we've had a really great past couple of years supporting the organization transforming in that way.
And, you know, and that's got to continue to happen for us. And we're excited to have.
[00:37:15] Lisa: Yeah, it's, it's, it's a huge opportunity. I think we have to be gentle with ourselves too, because it's, it's, everybody's learning as we go along and it's easy to, to want everything to be perfect, but we're all at different places. So we kind of have to be patient right. And gentle and one day at a time and try this and okay.
What else can we do? Cause we don't, we don't necessarily know at any given moment exactly what everybody's going to need. We can just try to anticipate, but keep checking.
[00:37:41] Allyson: Yeah. And that's the most important thing is just to, for us, it's been to keep listening, you know, to keep listening. You can't just ask once a year, you've got to work a little harder at it when you're in a virtual environment, whether you're an individual leader or my team figuring out what our listening strategy is.
And so to keep that line of communication open and as many ways as you can and be open to what's coming back.
[00:38:03] Lisa: Yeah, I have this, this picture of you just cause, cause you've always been that listener, right? The, the length of time I've known you, which God is coming on 20 years always been somebody just genuinely curious and always asking the questions and, and genuinely wanting to understand what people think and what they see.
So I think that's kind of the, the, the key gift that you're leaving me with today is just that, that reminder of how true that.
[00:38:26] Allyson: Oh, thank you, Lisa. I
[00:38:28] Lisa: My pleasure. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time and coming on today, it's just been a pleasure. I wish we had longer, to be honest. Cause there's so many directions we could go in our conversation.
Maybe we'll come back another time.
[00:38:39] Allyson: Maybe, maybe I'd be happy too.
[00:38:41] Lisa: Wonderful. All right. Thank you so much.
