[00:00:00] How do you listen to your employees? How do you find ways for them to participate in change and the company's success tune into this episode to refresh your passion for listening to the people you serve and for treating them as fully formed adults? My guest is Jenny , who is the talent director at OMERS ventures, where she is part of the operations team supporting 55 different startup company.
[00:02:27] She also helps the investment deal teams evaluate new ventures. Her day is highly variable and all about context switching. She might be advising one founder on an organizational redesign at 11:00 AM and then providing vendor recommendations to a newly-minted HR consultant at 2:00 PM. I so enjoyed recording this episode with Jenny.
[00:02:48] Her energy is infectious, and for me, it was neat to draw back the curtains a little on the world of venture capital and startups.
[00:02:56] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Welcome back to talent management truths. I'm joined today by Jenny , who is the head of talent at OMERS ventures. Jenny, welcome to the show today.
[00:03:11] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Oh, thanks so much for having me, Lisa, I'm
[00:03:14] excited for the conversation.
[00:03:16] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Ooh. So like I told you my I don't know, I'm getting goosebumps a little bit because there's so much to cover with you. You've got a really, really unique role in perspective on talent management, on talent leadership, because of the work that you do at OMERS ventures. Would you perhaps start by sharing with me and our listeners a little bit about your role and what makes it so unique?
[00:03:36] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah. So venture was not really a place that I ever thought I'd see myself. I was an HR leader in, in a variety of different startups for, you know, 15 years. The role at OMERS ventures is just I, I do two things. So one, I help our investment deal teams, as they're thinking about making investments in startups. a look at founders and founding teams and evaluate a little bit and offer some thoughts and perspectives on why we think that these are the people to solve for that big problem. and the other piece of what I do is also, I serve as an advisor to our portfolio companies. And so I have this great opportunity to support 55 plus portfolio companies across the world now.
[00:04:21] And in all things, people, talent, culture leadership and so a really fantastic opportunity to really have this very broad lens into a variety of different markets and, different, opportunities and challenges that they're facing.
[00:04:38] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, yeah, because I, you know, we were talking a bit in the green room about, you've got people out of those 55 companies that you, that you support at all different levels in terms of their, their knowledge, their experience with all things, talent, HR people. Right. So, so perhaps. Paint that picture a little bit for us.
[00:04:56] Like what's the, what's the range of stuff that you get pulled into that you advise on?
[00:05:01] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Oh, gosh, it's anything and everything. it is everything from. I need to make these three next hires. Do you have any recruitment firms that you'd recommend or do you know anybody that you might be able to introduce us to, to we're we're doing a bit of an organizational redesign and rethinking how we're structured as an organization.
[00:05:23] We're looking to enter into new markets. We don't know how to run payroll in the United States. You know, how can we get set up with a PO or an EOR, for example or
[00:05:35] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: things? If you could just share what are those acronyms,
[00:05:38] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: employer, employer of record. And so oftentimes these are payroll services that are stood up in other locations. Where you can sort of easily onboard without creating legal entity.
[00:05:50] and they'll sort of take on that employee and be able to do the payroll sort of in advance of maybe setting up something a little bit more formally in those locales and to, you know, most recently working with a couple of our portfolio companies who have engineered.
[00:06:06] In Ukraine and Belarus and Russia and dealing with everything from. can we help get people who are looking to leave those, those places? How can we assist in relocation to, oh my gosh. When a financial system goes down, how do we get cash into their hands? Is there a way to get cash into their hands in these circumstances and where we have been able to pull people out?
[00:06:33] is there opportunities at other portfolio companies. For friends and family opportunities for them potentially to be
[00:06:40] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh my God. Like that is just wild from recommending a recruitment vendor to, to, you know, it's a worst situation as we record this today in, Ukraine and it's just the most appalling situation, none of us ever thought we would actually see this, I think in present day and here, you're thinking about how do I help a company extract, somebody, an employee from Ukraine or Russia.
[00:07:02] We can't even pay them if you know, systems have been shut down. Oh boy, wild, wild, and difficult. I think that sort of, you know, I I'm sort of picturing you move shift daily throughout your day from different levels, from strategy to. Depth of detail and then just even mood wiser emotion wise from it's really life and death stuff in that particular scenario.
[00:07:26] But other times it's more, got to create a strategy. Are you looking for, what does long-term mean to you? Is it three-year or five-year et cetera, right? Like it's, really broad spectrum.
[00:07:35] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: It really puts me through my paces definitely keeps me on my toes. I am always context switching and I'm always. Going up high and, and then coming down to that very execution level, which you know what to be quite honest, I think I've had good training when you're the head of people coming out of startups, because you really are always wearing both hats.
[00:07:56] execution is key. Companies die without execution. But at the same time, you're always thinking long-term strategically about what you're building, because you understand that these are building blocks and that you need to get these, you know, couple of key components, Right. If you're going to serve that mission, you know, five years, six years, seven years down the road as well.
[00:08:20] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So, so I, I really appreciate when, you know, when you say companies die without execution. Cause that's, that's the rub, isn't it? Like I talked to so many different talent leaders so that whether they focus more purely on HR, ODI learning, it doesn't matter. Execution is the piece that people wish were.
[00:08:36] Easier right. That they could, get things done with a little bit less pain and delay and so on. Because it's one thing to plan, you know, and make the time to plan. And then it's another to actually move forward consistently and put things into place. So. What, what would you say if you were to contrast the startup kind of scenario that you've, you've worked in for so long with enterprise that's more mature, maybe larger, what would you say is kind of the, the difference when it comes to execution?
[00:09:05] If there is a difference.
[00:09:06] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Oh, gosh, I think there's a big difference. I at least think from my perspective, there's a big difference.
[00:09:12] I look at my colleagues who are, who do fabulous work at some of the. Very large organizations and. It's a different beast because it's a different, it's, it's much more systems thinking, you know, when you're making decisions that are going to impact, 10,000 employees across multiple geographies, how thoughtful you are about that change, the change management plan you have to put in place.
[00:09:35] The communication plan you'll have to put in place all of these things, just to sort of start to shift the, thought patterns and the narrative. It takes time and it
[00:09:46] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And I'm almost picturing, like, as you moved your hands, there are people can't see you, but it's like a ship, like you're trying to shift the direction right away from the icebergs and.
[00:09:53] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: And it really does. And, and then, and, and because these are organizations that have existed for quite some time, it's also about being thoughtful about how you thread, those changes through, you know, a variety of different other programs you have across an organization. It's not just that you've changed.
[00:10:10] For example. Your succession planning methodology and, and now, you know, how does that affect compensation? How does that affect hiring and recruiting? How does that affect all of these other pieces? It's, it's really this big system and big ship that you kind of got to turn slowly. So it's, it's different, on the other hand, start out.
[00:10:31] the execution is the name of the game and speed and iteration and innovation. And so, the joy I get out of the space is this notion that every day's a new day and.
[00:10:45] you have this real opportunity to create something new
[00:10:48] you get to create. A culture and environment and your feedback loops and your feedback cycles are So much shorter.
[00:10:56] You know, you have the opportunity to really quickly try a new program and see if it resonates or you have the opportunity to make changes. To your, your mission, vision, and values, for example, and you know, what, you have 18 people on your team. And so, you know, it's much less difficult to kind of introduce some of those changes.
[00:11:17] So, yeah, I think speed and execution, and really being able to be thoughtful, but still, be laser focused. On introducing new things into the environment sooner rather than later is, is obviously very important
[00:11:36] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So it's almost, it's almost like, a key thing to, remember really is when it. Enough. Good enough. Right? When am I prepared enough? Right. It's really being very focused, always tuning into not overdoing the planning, the analysis. So it's still important. It just sounds like it's, it's more about, can we move now or are we there now?
[00:12:00] Do we have enough? What, what's your thought around that?
[00:12:03] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah, well, there's this, there's this famous quote, which is 80% note the door, That's and that one often rings true. Now, is it 80%? I don't know. Maybe it's 68, maybe it's 72%. I, I, you know, I don't know the number exactly, but the concept is, is very true and that is, you know, you, you absolutely need to do your research.
[00:12:24] You need to be thoughtful
[00:12:25] in terms of your approach, you need to be thinking long-term in terms of what you're trying to build as an organization. and what are the best levers to use in terms of doing. But then, once you've thought through that strategy and that you have those pieces in place, no, the enemy of progress is perfection, right.
[00:12:43] Is another common saying. And so, you know what I've always tried to focus on and what I encourage people to focus on is get to that 80% get, you know, some level and degree of confidence that this is the direction you want to go in and then try. And when that 20% you can work on fine tuning as you go along.
[00:13:03] In terms of, because now you're into feedback loops right now, you're into like iteration. Now you've introduced sort of like a new training program, for example, and now you've had the first cohort go through and they're able to offer you feedback. About what they liked, what they didn't like. And that's how you continue to move the bar forward is, you know, once you've got it in cycle, once you've got people experiencing it, then their feedback helps you refine and, and continue to add value to that programming over time.
[00:13:35] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And, you know, I, I'm thinking really about the talent leaders that I, that I talk to every day and in my work and my own experience. Right. I think that's one of the biggest opportunities for people that are working in a house. You know, some of the larger organizations are there. They're not advising multiple companies like you globally.
[00:13:52] They're, they're serving one company they're responsible overall for talent. But I think that, you know, when. You need to be very focused on the strategic plans and you know, all of the different strategic goals, key performance indicators, and so on. It can be easy to get caught up in. We're going to build this complex plan and then we're going to start to execute it, to forget about the opportunities for feedback loops and to pivot and so on.
[00:14:17] Right? Like to. Agile with that back and forth. Okay. So we, we, we're trying this out now. We're checking with you, how is it landing for you? You know, here's what we're finding, what, you know, what could we adjust at this point and really being rigorous about that along the way, you know, and not, not, not peripheral, not sort of surface kind of check-ins, but I'm talking about really, like, what you're saying is, is being iterative and okay.
[00:14:42] Ensuring that, you know, everything's kind of, I don't know the way I look at it. Everything's an experiment. Right? You have
[00:14:48] opportunity to learn ongoing. It doesn't have to be perfect just because the plan was so big. You know, if it's too big a ship at the beginning, then there's, there's no opportunity to kind of mold it to be what you need it to be.
[00:15:00] Ultimately. What do you think about that?
[00:15:02] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah, Well,
[00:15:03] so look, one of my key driving tenants and also one of my biggest learnings from my head of people days is this notion of listen to your employees, where there is no greater secret for success than listen to your employees. Number one and two, treat them like adults. Like these are the two things that I think sometimes.
[00:15:29] We forget and we get lost in. And so oftentimes, you know, when people go, oh, but you've got this imperfect system that you're pushing out. And then, you know, you're going to iterate and get better, but that's lazy or that sloppy. It's no, I'm allowing room for collaboration with employees. I'm allowing for people to have this opportunity to say, you know, here's, here's the things that we're working in.
[00:15:53] That here's the things that don't work. And, and I I'm allowing them a space and a voice in that to help us collectively get better. And I think that's so important. You know, one of, I think one of the places it became. Crystal clear for me, it was my first time as a head of people and we were winning best workplaces.
[00:16:13] We were doing all of these things. We were bringing in yoga at lunch. We were bringing in, in the summer we had half day Fridays. And this is, almost 15 years ago now. So we were ahead of the curve. We were bringing in. at ice cream at lunch and taco trucks, I mean, we were doing all the coolest funnest things and spending a lot of money doing it. And we ran our first employee engagement survey, which I introduced to the organization and we asked them, you know, rank the things that you value and we get the feedback and the number one the number one thing that they value. Was casual Fridays, casual Fridays being able to wear shorts and a t-shirt and maybe flip flops to work on Friday in the summer, really mattered to them. And, and so here, I'm thinking about our next programs and releasing RSPs and, and ensure our demographic, you know, skewed very young at the time. You know, there's, there's a reason why it was chosen, but you're thinking about all of these complex systems in your mind, but if you just stop and ask people, I would have never come up with that on my own.
[00:17:20] I would have never known that that was something they valued.
[00:17:23] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: one thing that would make a difference for you. Right? We could get there.
[00:17:27] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: And I would have never known. And so why we try to pretend that we have all the answers or that we forget that being a leader is also about listening. Especially in the, in the talent and HR space is about, really, it's not about, you know, setting the tone for all of our employees. It's about how we reach out to them and how we collaborate with them to create some. And so that's the lens. I look at it through and I don't think of it as kind of this command and control. And we're building all of your systems and regulations. It is more an invitation for people to find ways to participate. Because I think when you get that level of buy-in, when you get that level of commitment, Then things like the great resignation don't impact you as much because people find value where they're working.
[00:18:20] Not just in terms of the economic exchange, but in terms of how they feel they can show up to work and how they're valued at work. And I think you also get better outcomes. When you engage everybody, you know, in that thought process, as much as Paul.
[00:18:36] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I agree. I think that's really, really wise, you know, it's about the listening, finding ways for people to participate. When I, when I talk about change management, when I speak to it or teach it you know, I often talk. This is not in any of the certifications or, you know, that you may have done or I've done, but the three basic pillars, right?
[00:18:53] To, to bring people along to engage them, it's acknowledge where they're at provide context about the why for a change or a new system or strategy or whatever it is and involve.
[00:19:07] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Hm.
[00:19:07] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And involve them continuously. And that's that whole dialogue conversation. We were talking in the green room around how, you know, ultimately I think one of the biggest opportunities for town.
[00:19:19] Is to, is to help the leaders in their organizations so that the leaders that they supporting your case feel equipped and be equipped to have meaningful conversations with employees so that they are listening, they are collaborating. So it's creating the space where it, and then also not, not being scared of it.
[00:19:35] Cause there's there's fear like, oh my God. I scared what they'll say. Like that's actually a very real, real thing. Right? So this is why sometimes, you know, this idea of, of ongoing continuous performance conversations and so on, you know, there's, there's some people that will just skip right over that. They don't, they don't actually really want to know.
[00:19:55] Oh where their their team is at or what they, because they, well, it's not that they don't want to know. They're worried that other stuff's going to come up, that they won't be equipped to deal with.
[00:20:03] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah.
[00:20:04] No, absolutely. And I think the trick there is, isn't it silly how with everything in life. we, as we're developing these skills, as our children are learning to spell or, or read or write, or as an adult, as I'm learning to play tennis or like that we require lessons and or that we require ongoing support or that, that we have to actually practice certain skills in terms of, of actually getting better. some reason, we don't apply that to the work world in the sense of management, Right.
[00:20:40] Where we don't think of management as an actual skill or leadership as an actual skill. And that people are not just born that way. There might be some exceptional people that are just born that way, but generally these people are not born that way and they need support.
[00:20:58] And so whether that's. training, especially for first time managers, whether that is, coaching made available to them. Like, I'm always amazed, like with the Shopify of the world and one of our portfolio companies metal you know, also offers coaching so things like that, that, that help. Our managers and our leaders in our organizations continue to get better and continue to practice those skills. And also just the culture that we set up as well, in terms of letting them know I'm being a manager. Does it require you to say all of the Right.
[00:21:33] things all of the time? It doesn't require you to be perfect.
[00:21:38] And sometimes with employees just like with your boss or anything else. I don't know the answer to that. Maybe let's talk about that together and see if we can figure it out, or I don't have that answer for you, but do you know what I'm going to go speak to a couple of people in the organization and I'll follow up with you next week.
[00:21:59] And we can kind of dig into that.
[00:22:00] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, and right there, if you think about, okay, well what skills or competencies do they map to? Well, it's, it's collaboration. It's relationship building. It's leadership humility. It's it. Right. It's partnering. It's being courageous, you know, enough to say, I don't know, and getting comfortable with, with
[00:22:18] that. It's it's fascinating. So, you know, something else that, that came up in our, in our earlier conversation before we hit record, which I really appreciate it, where you were coming from around this best practices piece, cause you were saying. people will, especially the folks that you're advising, you're offering this bespoke advice to these different startups, you know, they'll say, well, what are the best practices?
[00:22:38] And you have some interesting thoughts around that. Could you share
[00:22:41] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Interesting or dangerous. I don't
[00:22:44] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: what both? I know you're somebody who likes to break it.
[00:22:47] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: I do I do I do. I like to break things? Oops. No, I don't believe in best practices. I only believe in right practices. And so, you know, so often times you're talking to leaders in organizations. And then like, oh, I love the Netflix culture or the Zappos culture or the Google culture, or, you know, any of these other culture codes that, that were invoke a couple of years ago and, and, and being published and look, I think all of them are fantastic.
[00:23:15] And I think, you know, I've read them all. And I think they, they have things that I resonate with in, in a variety of them, but there is a reason why everybody is. And there is a reason, right? Everybody is not Netflix and can't run with those exact documents. And the reason is because they have different founders, they serve different markets.
[00:23:38] They they're product led versus sales led versus, you know, customer service focused, all of those sorts of things. So there is no one way forward and everybody's looking for that one way forward. There.
[00:23:52] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:23:54] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah.
[00:23:54] And you know, they're looking to shortcut it. And so, my biggest piece of advice is like, like read them, pull what you love about them, but then take a step back, you know?
[00:24:05] startups are hard. There are, you know, one founder once told me there's easier ways to make money and it is still true. No, no one does this because it's easy. And no one does this because to make money, I don't think in the most, most part, but the reality is the one thing that you get to do that's really special is you get to create something unique.
[00:24:26] And so start with that intentionality. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish? What is the place you want to show up for work every day? What does that look like? And if you can then build around that and take the appropriate learnings from all of these different codes and sort of mission, mash them together and try some of them out and introduce some of your own.
[00:24:49] Thoughts and ideas. Then the reality is like what a joy, right? To
[00:24:54] create this culture that is uniquely yours. And then if you are intentional in authentic about how you build that out throughout your culture, and if you are intentional and authentic in how you more broadly communicate that you will also find your tribe.
[00:25:12] Right. You will find the group of people that it makes. It makes things like hiring so much easier because people have this clear idea. Of R I does this work for me or does this not work for me? And sometimes it's just as important in that process to not work for some people, as much as it is work for some people right now, there's been such a debate around remote, all remote, not all remote, go
[00:25:39] back to the office, all and everything in between. And I don't think there is one winner. It, all of that, all, I think I've seen companies go fully remote and succeed and it's been fantastic for them and a recruiting advantage. And I've seen people, companies go back to the office for the most part, and I've also seen it work for them and be a recruiting advantage for them.
[00:26:01] And I think the ones that are doing it well are just thoughtful about how they're doing it and are just conscious about. how directly they're communicating that expectation. And then once that's out there, people can decide what's best for them. you don't have to be everything to everybody.
[00:26:18] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: No. and, and and it goes back to what you were saying earlier, like listen to your employees, right. And, and consider what's, what's the unique, what makes us unique? What makes us tick, as individuals within an organization, but then an aggregate as well as a culture, you know, it's it's, I just did the series Of talent talks with talent leaders and, and it was, you know, really, it was an opportunity to give people a chance cause we did small breakouts and then large group discussion to talk with peers. Right. Because I'm, I'm with you. I don't think it's all about a swipe file. Add deck from Zappos or whatever company that you're just, you're just adjusting a little bit for your own situation.
[00:26:55] What are some frameworks out there, some models, some experiences stories that I can draw from to gain inspiration and to, to spark juicy ideas about what would work in my reality. And then I want conversation with people who, who get it right with my people. So I can kind of think this through, out loud and figure out what is, what is it going to, what is it going to look like in my world?
[00:27:21] Right. So.
[00:27:22] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: So much more beautifully than I did perfectly said perfectly said.
[00:27:26] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, well, well, the big I've been thinking about it a lot because cause like, cause I've got a new program coming up the talent trust, which is all around creating that opportunity for people to look at what are the different frameworks, the flexible frameworks and how do I make it work for me? Right specific to my situation, my organization situation.
[00:27:45] I just think, Forget the cookie cutter stuff. We don't need cookie cutter, right? I'm not talking about make it hard, but it's actually about simplifying, distilling down to what's actually most important right now in your organization. What's the most important thing to start with depending on where you want to go.
[00:28:01] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Absolutely. And you said that so much more beautifully, like I said, than I could have. So I think, I think that's wonderful and I think that's exactly the sentiment there's no secret playbook. There's there's not one that's going to save you. There's not one. That's your, your silver bullet.
[00:28:15] And don't waste the opportunity, right? Like don't waste this opportunity that you have when you're in that startup framework to really grab on to the potential of creating something special and really, collaborating broadly across your team to creating something that's going to have impact.
[00:28:37] and meaning,
[00:28:38] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Well, the, the other thing too, that's. That's coming up for me as I sort of think about this as I see this in so many, so many people, I don't know if it's, it's just how it leaders, but so many really smart, talented people who then kind of second guess themselves or have imposter syndrome.
[00:28:53] I bet. And sort of like, I think with the startup mode, what's interesting to me and, and could be applied in, typical corporate environment. you're the lead for, for talent is to consider what do you already know? okay. If you're in the first year of your, your career journey, then sure.
[00:29:10] There's probably lots of stuff you haven't been exposed to and that, you know, it would be helpful to learn more frameworks or models, but I know I've gone through this as an entrepreneur. Like at some point I've had, I've had the. I know what to do. I have the tools, the templates, the swipe files. And so now it's about what, based on those things, what could work for me?
[00:29:27] I know my situation best, right? So how am I going to start dipping into the toolbox? We're back to the execution discussion almost
[00:29:36] right. How do I start trusting myself and what I know and getting support as I, it doesn't mean you're all alone. It doesn't mean you're not reaching out to, to vet things and confirm things, but, Taking steps.
[00:29:48] Cause I see a lot of people sort of going, oh, I'm not sure where to start. And they actually, they do know there it's more around feeling know, feeling a bit vulnerable about getting going, I think. Have
[00:29:58] you seen this at all? with people that you've worked with,
[00:30:00] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Have
[00:30:01] I personally at all. Yeah, sure. Gosh, I am just full of cliches today, but they're like, there's another one. That's, that's a real favorite of mine. And that is like, it all starts with the one. Right. And so I always try to put that in my mind, like I am here today and whether it is physical goal, an emotional goal, a family goal, or work where I just kind of go, you just got to start.
[00:30:28] And so I just try to shut off for two seconds that any fear that is in my head and just take that one step forward. So for example, this is my first podcast and.
[00:30:40] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Not your last I'm. Sure.
[00:30:43] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: I don't know about that. Cause you know, imposter syndrome kicking in where I'm like, oh my God, did I just sound really stupid? But here's the thing. You just take that one step forward, someone asks and you go, okay, I'll do it. And then you sit with it afterwards. You know, I don't think I should have said I'll do it, but like now I've committed.
[00:31:00] So I'm going to do it.
[00:31:01] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And yet there's a reason I invited you on the show. Right. There's a reason, you're very credible leader with a really, really interesting viewpoint. And, and so this is something I know my listeners want to hear. You're bringing a different angle. So it's, it's fascinating to me, right.
[00:31:16] Because we forget, oh yeah, somebody actually invited me because they actually. I think, wow. Oh, I've got an impressive background. And then you start thinking about, what do I have to say? It's really fast. I've been there myself. Like I get it.
[00:31:28] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: And so if I have advice for anybody it's, you just got to get started. You just got to take that first step, whatever it is. And then that momentum you know, sort of gathers from there. And then once you kind of do that first thing that you were dreading, or you were scared of, then you kind of go, okay, that wasn't so bad.
[00:31:43] Okay.
[00:31:44] Yeah. I tried.
[00:31:45] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Shouldn't be gets action. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:31:47] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: It gets action. There's a reason why they're cliches it's because there's some universal truth.
[00:31:52]
[00:31:53] Yeah. So that's, that's just to me forward momentum always. and by the way, that wasn't always me, like, that's really a by-product I think of, kind of coming over to the startup world. that's what it really taught me because I was a perfectionist and I very quickly had the bruises, you know, to prove, you know, that wasn't going to work in the same way. I couldn't dot every I and cross every T you know, sometimes you just had to move. And so that was a skill that I acquired over time
[00:32:22] to kind of go, it can be 80% out the door and out the door.
[00:32:25] I can just. This first step and trust myself and the team around me to be smart enough to be collaborative enough, to be generous enough in spirit to each other, that we're going to try something new together. And, and if it doesn't work out exactly as we had planned. Or if we're not happy with the outcome that we can make changes and adjust as we go along.
[00:32:50] And, and then we're just going to keep doing this. And as we do this, we're going to learn more and we're going to get better at doing this. and we're going to get stronger as a team And it's okay to allow each other to fail a little bit in the service of getting better at what we're, what we're doing.
[00:33:07] that that creates this real magical wheel. And so I've learned to trust that first step. It was super scary at the beginning, and now I go, Okay.
[00:33:15] I can, I can do it.
[00:33:16] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Like you've really been, it it's practice versus perfection. Right. You know, there's progress, but there's also, it's just, it's a practice. It, we, we, we dis we under estimate how important that is in, in daily life, in corporate life. You know, you're expected just to get it right.
[00:33:32] And, and so
[00:33:33] I'm really hearing your, somebody found it scary, but you're operating in it. And by virtue of that, you're getting more and more comfortable. Right. You're stepping outside of that comfort zone. Expanse over time. you know, as I hear you speak, I think that might be, if I were to kind of pull out one of the key lessons or takeaways that would be helpful to someone like myself, who, who, who served, you know, the larger, more mature organizations for the most part.
[00:33:57] it's that. Agility that iterative, that courage to just to just keep taking a step and to know that failure is learning, learning is failure, right. That they kind of go together.
[00:34:09] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah.
[00:34:09] no, absolutely. I think it was a big lesson for me. And then, you know, once you've been doing it for 15 years now, I'm pretty comfortable with it. If I don't have that sort of feedback loop, I kind of wonder what's wrong with me. You are not being smart about this because you're scared enough be more scared, but you need to look at this with a little bit more terror Yeah.
[00:34:31] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Ooh. That's, that's an interesting angle. We could go all very far down that rabbit hole. I'm sure. To the whole, the whole role of fear in, creating. Innovation. Right. And that ability to pivot and really, you know, turn on a dime kind of thing like you're needing to do when you're sort of working in serving at all different levels and so many different needs in the course of one day.
[00:34:53] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah.
[00:34:54] Do you know what? It's so funny? I do it like, I don't have anything insightful. They're like here you ask this really deep question and it is just, I think something that I uniquely bring to the role at ventures is that I've lived this journey. Right. And so I know what it's like. I know what it's like to, you know, walk out of an office one day and think I am brilliant.
[00:35:17] Look at what I just pulled off. And my team is brilliant. Like let's at this amazing team of people. We are going to set the world on fire. We are the next unicorn. I hate that word by the way, but, I figure everybody can identify with. And then I've literally the very next day side of my car for 10 minutes, because I had to cry before I drove home, because I'm sure I've done something that's going to bankrupt.
[00:35:41] The company is going to ruin us all. And then I had my entire family's, future financial health on this and it's not going to work and I'm going to be horribly humiliated in the process. And so I think once you're tested by that type of fire, at least for me, like after you've done,
[00:36:01] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: High and low.
[00:36:02] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: I kind of feel like, so when, when I feel like I show up for our founders or the head of people at, at our organizations, I feel like I show up whole and one having to real true deep empathy for the journey that they're on. And because I feel like I know it and not just know it, but I feel it still so profoundly that I don't have fear in showing up for them. It is more, I more feel like, okay, let's roll up our sleeves and how can I help?
[00:36:33] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that would be so reassuring and, and calming for them that are, you know, when they're in it, in the extreme highs and lows. Yeah. You would bring this, this steadying presence. I can, I can see that.
[00:36:44] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: I hope so because you know what, at the end of the day, it's what I would have wanted. You know, if there was one thing I could have said from our investors that I would have wanted is God, I would have loved that, that thought partner or that individual who I could count on when I would, I just needed sober second thought.
[00:37:04] Okay. We're thinking of doing this. What do you think, have you seen at work? Have you seen it? Not work? anything I should be aware of. Like, I wish I had this, I wish I had this person. And so I just try to show up every day trying to be the person that I wish I had when I was back in the startup world.
[00:37:21] And so it's a, it's a combination of their biggest cheerleader because I just know what it takes. And I am just in awe of these founders and these startup leaders. So like it's just a profound respect. A real desire test in a very small way. And by the way, it's only ever a very small way that I can help them either get over something or try something new or get a little bit unstuck or however they need help.
[00:37:51] And in that little way, you know, help them reignite something out so that they can go on to create. This, you know, something great, which I know they're going to do. Cause that's the other thing. I'm a true believer. I'm I'm team founder all the way. I'm takes a lot of courage and a lot of commitment and,
[00:38:11] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: You see them where they are and for what they are. And, and I think that empathy would, make it very easy to take your advice, right. Cause it, to create that trust in that collaboration, that's so important in the kind of role that you, that you provide. So such a pleasure, Jenny, honestly, I think you and I could go forever.
[00:38:29] So many different directions we could explore. At the end of our conversation though, timing wise. I wonder though, if there's, if you'd be willing to share, like, what's your most essential piece of advice for talent leaders today, anywhere operating anywhere based on, you know, the world's the, world's a, a tricky place.
[00:38:50] There's a lot going on. What's the most important thing.
[00:38:53] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: I, I think, and I I'm, I'm trying to be very thoughtful about this, but I'm also trying to, because you know, sometimes, you know, it's like be authentic. Well, isn't that big and deep and how, how do I best do that? And so I'm trying to think of something that I think. You know, very strategic and yet also still very tactical. And I'm going to tie back into something we were talking about earlier, and that is, you know, as talent and people leaders don't forget the person like recognize that fully formed adults come into our organizations. And when they do, they bring, all of their great talents, but who they are as people as well.
[00:39:35] And so. Never presume in your programming or how you create it. Don't forget that an organization is only this collective of people trying to accomplish amazing things or, you know, tremendous goals. And so when in doubt about whether to go hybrid or whether to go remote or whether to stay in the.
[00:39:57] Ask your employees when you're, when you're trying to make decisions about, you know, different products you could introduce into the market, ask your employees, find ways to engage. this talent. I just don't think we do that enough. I think we get lost in our own strategies and our own programming and our own platitudes.
[00:40:18] Sometimes that we forget just the very basic building blocks, which are the people that show up in service of the organization every day. And if we would only start with. You know, with that real thought of maximizing all of their great ideas, all of the ways that they show up that that truly is a game changer and we get it so often.
[00:40:44] And so it's both strategic and it's highly tactical and it's one of those things you can do with one step, at a time, just go ask your employees.
[00:40:51] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. As long as it's not a once a year survey, it's building it in so that you do have that frequent feedback loop, as you've said, make sure everybody's were on the same page and, you know, going in the direction. That makes the most sense.
[00:41:04] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Yeah.
[00:41:05] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today.
[00:41:07] It's been an absolute pleasure.
[00:41:10] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--guest968485--jenny: Well, thank you so much for having me
[00:41:11] jenny-do-forno-march-3_recording-1_2022-03-22--t04-00-14pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Thank you so much, Jenny.
