[00:00:00] All of a share the experience of being new into a role or organization. At least once it can be uncomfortable and exciting. And yet it can also be easy to forget that mix of emotion when it comes to designing or sustaining onboarding programs and processes for other people. There are important learnings you can extrapolate when considering how to create or improve support systems for new leaders and employees in your organization.
[00:02:05] In today's episode, we discuss my guests, recent experience of being the new person around town for the first time in awhile. And we break down the do's and don'ts when starting in a new role and coming. My guest is Melissa law, who is the VP of culture, talent, and organizational development at Liberty utilities.
[00:02:22] She's also a certified coach. This is Melissa's third visit to talent management truths. I keep inviting her because she's incredibly articulate and smart and brings so much. Plus we have a lot of fun and our conversations simply flow. I invite you to go back to episode number one on creating buy-in and episode 18 on succession planning for more great content with Melissa.
[00:02:46] Thanks for listening.
[00:02:47]
[00:02:52] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: hello and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today I am joined for the third time. In fact, by Melissa law. Melissa was the first guest on the show and I'm delighted to have you here again. Welcome Alyssa.
[00:03:06] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: ah, thank you so much. This is always a fun place to be. And I love when we spend time together talking everything talent.
[00:03:13] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Likewise. Likewise, we could go for hours. So things have changed since you were last on the show. And we talked about succession planning. I got a lot of great feedback about that episode, as well as the first one. perhaps you could start by catching us up a little bit on what's been happening for you.
[00:03:28] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah. So thanks for highlighting that. It has, it's been a wild start to 2022. And you know, when we last connected Lisa, I was launching sunrise coaching and, and stepping out of the corporate environment and really starting to get my feet wet and see, you know, Business development like and networking and things I enjoy to do.
[00:03:51] However an opportunity came around and, and I just thought that, you know, the universe is trying to tell me something here. And so I have moved back into a corporate leadership role and I'm really excited to be in the newly created role of vice president and a culture of Dean talent with Liberty utilities and Oakville.
[00:04:09] They are a wonderful company that has gone through. Massive growth, rapid growth in the last couple of years. and so I have jumped on board to join them and forge the future with everyone there around how do we make footprint? And, you.
[00:04:26] know, they have a very strong Vision and the guiding principles and purpose and, and pillars to, to help lead that way.
[00:04:35] And I'm thrilled to be part of it. I'm not abandoning sunrise coaching. I have a lot of passion there around the power of coaching and what it can do to help individuals transform themselves and the world around them. And so I'm going to leverage this opportunity to, know, really do. Some of my passion projects on the coaching side while I am acquainting and onboarding with Liberty,
[00:05:00] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Fabulous. Well, and, and we both kind of giggled when I, when we, when I figured out you'd gone there because I've done work with, with Liberty as a, as a coach on their roster and worked with several leaders there and really, really enjoyed enjoyed it. And, and what a great industry to get involved with, right.
[00:05:15] With, with re it's renewables, wind, and solar which. The way we need to be going with, with fossil fuels becoming more and more industry ever. Right. So for rightfully so, cause of climate change. So yeah, so congratulations on that
[00:05:28] shift. Really, really intriguing. And so, you know, when we were talking about what we wanted to focus on for this particular effort where we landed was, huh?
[00:05:38] Here you are ramping up onboarding in this newly created role and, you know, really working to be conscious about. Empathy. Right. Where is this organization at? Where are the people at? What do they need, what do I need? And also drawing from your own experience, helping to craft onboarding programs in the past for other leaders.
[00:06:02] So, with that, I think, you know, maybe you could tell us a little bit about. What does it feel like to be out for a little bit, and then now going back in, and it's a completely different industry, it's a new role. Like where are you at with that?
[00:06:17] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: well, I don't think I'd be alone in saying, oh, that's a little bit scary because it's change. It's something new. Right. And, and this is not foreign to me. Of course, I've worked across big box retail, telecommunications, construction, senior living, and now utilities, but it's always. It's a change, not only for the company, but it's a change for the person and really trying to find their footing.
[00:06:39] You know, someone upset to me. It's like when you, when you move company, Where things were going really well. It's like going from hero to zero.
[00:06:47] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:06:48] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Right. Everybody knew you, you knew what was going on. And you know, you knew the lingo and everything, and now it's like, oh, who are you? You know, whenever you go into a new organization.
[00:07:00] And so, you know, it's that, it's that balancing after more like the juggling act of, you know, how do I learn about the organization? How do I. Find, you know, how I fit in with the culture and everything, where, am I, where are we going to focus? Going forward, as you get to know your team and your, your business leaders and your HR partners.
[00:07:23] so much to really back, observe and get curious about and learn from those early days when you're making a transition into a new role with the new.
[00:07:37] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and you brought up, you know, getting curious and, and I think that's incredibly important and, and humble, right? it's a strong way to approach a new setting because you're having to earn trust. You don't have the Goodwill you had before is you, you, you got to build it right. It's that here at a zero thing.
[00:07:54] So with curiosity, Often I talk about the, the judger learner model, which I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, how most of us walk around all day in judger mode and, and that's, that's okay. It's not saying that we're bad people, but we are human. And so it's easy for us to go into, you know, not truly be listening and to go into judger mode and sort of have the inner eye roll in, in that kind of thing.
[00:08:15] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah.
[00:08:16] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: not judging ourselves for judging, but noticing it, choosing to step back and shift into learner mode. And when we do. We with curiosity.
[00:08:25] So I'm really seeing you choose to be the learner in this particular situation.
[00:08:31] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Very much so because it's easy for any human being around the globe to go into that judgment. I mean, you know, go read positive intelligence and look at the research in neuroscience. Like it's inherent to human beings and it does not discriminate right? Wherever you are, whatever role you're in or level you're in.
[00:08:51] I go way back to early days when I worked with Walmart, Canada they that's really where I grew up right through my twenties and into my thirties. And I was there for about 12 years or more. And as lead new leaders would come in and hear ours and we would onboard them back in those days. I would feel that, pain, when they say, well, why do we do it this way?
[00:09:16] Why don't we do it that way? Have you ever thought about this? And it would quite honestly, in my youth and in those meetings were with a company that I revered. I found it really annoying and insulting at times. Right. And so, fortunately in the spirit of learning, I've kept that feeling with me as I went to company since then to say, you know what, that's not a nice way to feel.
[00:09:42] And if I'm going to be the new person, then you know, what's the talk I need to walk here. What's the culture, what are the norms? What are, you know, the taboos and things like that. And, and really to appreciate and get into that curiosity mode that we spoke of and ask, the questions of, what's the history.
[00:10:03] what have we tried? What I've only tried, you know, what do we think of this? You know, how's it going? All of those kinds of questions to just really
[00:10:11] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yep.
[00:10:11] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: curious and to be able to draw out the most insights that, a person can, as they're learning about a new organization and the new people that they are forming relationships on So important to, to do exactly that. Leave, leave any judgment and any assumptions or jumping to conclusions at the door. This in these early days the opportunity to get curious and to learn to be open-minded to where have we been? Where are we at and where are we looking to go?
[00:10:43] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it's, it's absolutely essential at this beginning point. Isn't it? Right when you're, when you're building that trust, you're getting the lay of the land. You're, you know, you're starting to create that vision and strategy To leave those assumptions and judgements at the door. And it's, it's important to do that ongoing too, which is it's so interesting, right?
[00:10:59] It's kind of like a way to start that you can continue with right in the way you operate in the way you get things done. You, you mentioned a couple of great questions there which I really enjoyed. So first of all, just a contrast to the one that you experienced that didn't, you didn't personally like, which I've experienced too with new leaders coming in or new peers, even.
[00:11:17] Why do you do it like that? You know, and it, and it, when you go through for people listening that may have had some, some education around coach, like approach or, or executive coaching, know, we're taught you, don't ask why.
[00:11:31] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah.
[00:11:31] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: is. Puts people on defensive the automatically feel like they have to do.
[00:11:36] And that's not a great place to be when you're trying to learn. Right. Because you're going to get not necessarily a holistic view of something you're going to get it selectively built. I'm going to convince you it, that this is the right way to be. Right. So you're not getting kind of the whole picture because, because you put somebody on the defense potentially with that.
[00:11:57] Why question? you've suggested. Couple of great ones. What's the history. What have you tried? What haven't you tried? What are some other great questions? Let's, let's compile a bit of a list here.
[00:12:09] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah. So if I think about some questions that I've used over over the decades if you had one wish where you could do anything, you could change anything at this company, what would it. And it's a great question that really has people stop and think, Hmm. One wish anything. Where would I put all my, all my pennies, Right.
[00:12:31] Where would I really want to put that to make something even better in my organization? And a lot of times too, you know, where do you spend the most, most of your time what's priority.
[00:12:43] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right.
[00:12:44] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: and when I'm talking with individuals, I tend to, so we can understand more about them as well as the work that they do.
[00:12:54] I like to ask those more talent questions around, you know, what fills you with energy and what drains you because it lets you see. A bit of peek into the person to know and get to know them. Like what's going to have you brighten up and engage in what might actually, turn you off and, and shut you down because you find it draining.
[00:13:16] so those are some questions that I like to ask. and really just start building off those. And I think the other piece I would never have asked, I'll be honest with you in past until, going through and becoming a coach, but there's power and understanding feelings and emotions and, and power for the good, right.
[00:13:39] So when I'm in anything. A lot of times, if something's coming up, it it's noticing what that person is feeling. And as you'd like, what, feelings or what emotions does that create for you? And again, it's purely, there's no right.
[00:13:53] or wrong answer. I'm not judging. I'm just curious about, so you've shared something with me.
[00:14:00] what feelings does that create? And then you can start to learn about people and the company
[00:14:06] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, it's interesting. I also think that when you ask that question, it's a brave question and it can create a bit of vulnerability for, for the asker and the person replying. I think it's an interesting opportunity for the responding person actually tune in to what's truly.
[00:14:23] Going on because we can, we can speak, cerebrally, logistically all we want and, and sort of, this is how it is, this is how it should be. And then often when you ask that question, so, so how does it make you feel, you know, in your gut for instance? Oh actually, oh, why'd you bring that up?
[00:14:41] It makes me feel anxious. It makes me feel concerned. It makes me feel scattered or overwhelmed, whatever the answer is or makes me feel grounded, passionate, joyful, whatever it is. It does
[00:14:51] give you clues.
[00:14:52] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: heard seeing
[00:14:54] part of the family.
[00:14:55] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes.
[00:14:56] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: gives you, it gives you a window into looking at the cup and to understanding the culture because most people know, you know, your culture, isn't just the values you have painted on the wall, right? It's the norms and the behaviors and things like that.
[00:15:12] And so that's not something you can read on a website. It's not something you can read on the wall in a very nice, beautiful glossy poster. And so it's just a, I don't know, a personal and maybe more intimate. Looking in the window to the culture that exists within a team, a function or a company
[00:15:30] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: You actually just made me think of a question that I, I were in your shoes would probably come up, which is. You know, most companies have that list of values on the wall. Right. So taking it off the wall and how do, how do we live into, or, or not live into our values in this organization? Right?
[00:15:47] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah.
[00:15:48] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: we walking the talk? And if not, where's our biggest opportunity. So not to make it into, you know, a complain whinge and whine kind of fast, but rather well, what does that mean? If that's, if that's how it is, where would you like to see things?
[00:16:04] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Well, I think it's a great. Avenue to go, because when you think about company values, corporate values, right? There's, what's written, and then there's about a thousand different interpretations because everyone. Processes and feels it and brings it to life differently. And that's one of the magical things about company values and company culture, right.
[00:16:30] Is okay. So to your point, they said, you know, how does that come? How did these values come to life? Like tell me some stories.
[00:16:38] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Hmm, that's beautiful. Tell me some stories. Okay. Gold. What else could we dig into around that piece that would help with understanding for any new leader? Not just a new talent leader in an org, not a new leader necessarily, but a leader coming into a role for the first time in any particular department or division, what are some other things to be asking?
[00:16:58] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: A place that is important really understanding the business model and understanding, you know, how do we operate? Where do we offer? What are the complexities that we deal with? How do we make money? Like, let, let's just put that on a T on the table because let's not forget that every company is in business to make money. Yes.
[00:17:19] We have great vision, mission and values. But we don't go into business to not make money. And that applies whether you're a for-profit or not for profit, whether you're fundraising or you're charging fees, right. It's a business. So how do we make money? It's important to know, because sitting in, in corporate roles, then how do you service the business?
[00:17:41] How do you provide them what's needed if it doesn't align with the business model or how the business generates.
[00:17:50] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. And I, and I agree. I think that's so critical because, you know, I think it's been changing. For many years though, O D well, HR was the party planner. My old, my old boss used to say, we are not the party planners. know, and there's been this real concerted effort and education around earning the right to be at the table and to be a partner into a new organization, you don't have that built up Goodwill.
[00:18:16] And so earn that right with the various stakeholder. It's imperative that can speak the language and you've got some credibility about stuff like how this business makes money and understand how. HR talents, Odie, what, whatever area you're representing helps drive those results. Because otherwise there can be a tendency if there's no questions about that, you know?
[00:18:39] Cause I have had talent HR, people say to me, I don't need to know that stuff. I'm a generalist. I'm really good at what I do. I don't. And I, respectfully disagree completely because I think it goes to it's, a detriment to your credibility. If you're. Really leaning in and asking those questions.
[00:18:56] You don't have to be an expert. You do have to know it enough that you can follow along and speak the lingo, so to speak.
[00:19:04] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Full-heartedly those in the talent space, we wouldn't be there. If there weren't operating teams. And functions that were driving the business. And so you should never get so high and mighty that. Well, I only need to know talent. No, because you know what, it's not cookie cutter.
[00:19:24] You can't just say, well, I did this in my last company. I'm going to do it in this company. Won't work, or I read it in this journal. And so I'm just going to do it the same way from the journal. Or I heard this at a fantastic conference. Right.
[00:19:38] Okay. Well, like people, organizations are dynamic, they're living organisms they're not all the same.
[00:19:48] So if you don't work to understand how. The business model works and what the company does and how the pieces fit together, how do you custom make the right quote callant solutions for that organization? Because I'm sorry, there's not a heck of a lot of talent solutions out there that are out of the box.
[00:20:10] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, good. It's it's so true, right? I mean, there may be out of the box elements that you build into what you provide, but the overarching strategy and how it hangs together, right. The story needs to be clear, cohesive, and custom
[00:20:27] to that organized.
[00:20:28] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: so, so Lisa, that just brought something to my mind that we talked about before is, you know, when you said about, you know, there's out of the box elements and then we custom tailor and help them fit into the organization, that's where the. The reception, the buy-in, the stickiness, the adoption, and embedding it comes from it's going to be an uphill battle.
[00:20:53] If you come in and just surely take something out of the box and say, this is the way we're going to do it, especially in the talent arena. I mean, SAP Workday, all those big things ERP is, are coming in and they're like, yep. This is how you have to do it now. And just, if you've ever been through one of those, look at the resistance around, well, how do I make it do this?
[00:21:16] Or you don't, you have to do it this way now.
[00:21:19] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: No, but in our organization, no, we're, we're unicorns. Absolutely. Right. Hate to use an overused word, but, but it's true. And then they're like, no, you're not. We've worked with,
[00:21:27] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah.
[00:21:28] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that you're it's right. You're you're so, right, right. That resistance, that builds up because you know, so why not start from a place.
[00:21:35] You're special and you are a unique, and so there may be elements that we can apply that will work as is others. We've got to we've got to curate, we've got to tweak, you know, even if it's changing the language so that people understand it better. There's, there's, it doesn't have to be complex when we talk about customization.
[00:21:55] I think a lot of people get very scared. They get kind of like, my God, this is going be. And it's not necessarily right. It could simply be we're going to present something or, or, or put it out there through the lens of this company's particular competencies or value system or, you know, cultural. So on the, the other thing too, that I want to go back to, this is you and I, we can, we could just like go off in so many
[00:22:21] different directions.
[00:22:22] I think being, green. Yes. But when, when you were talking. You know, there's things that you've, you may have used before strategies that you've put in place, things that made you successful that got you to where you are. It reminds me of. Book. I've probably mentioned in other episodes. What got you here?
[00:22:36] Won't get you there by Marshall Goldsmith. Who's just, you know, one of the original kind of executive coaches, if you will, and such important wisdom in that book, he has a new one coming out, actually.
[00:22:48] Oh, I can't think of the name. Yes. The evolved life, I think is I think it's something like that and I'm looking forward to reading it.
[00:22:54] Yeah.
[00:22:55] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: remember. So I read that book. got You gosh. I read that book in 2009.
[00:23:01] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay. You remember the year?
[00:23:02] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: I do. Oh my gosh. And I actually, I just, I did a blog post about something that came out of that. And I remember in those early days of earlier days of my career reading it and kind of skimming through, you know, the things that you got to watch out for.
[00:23:20] I remember looking at it going, oh, well this would be a good read to figure out, you know, how I can coach and help other people. I don't think any of these apply. I read the book and I went, Ooh. And it was such an eye opener. And, you know, there, there's some great tidbits that came out of that book that there'll be different for every person. But you know, there's, there's certainly a couple that I've carried with me ever since 2009.
[00:23:46] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Beautiful thing and well, and it links back to a lot of it's around, like it's bringing your strengths, bring your expertise, bring your knowledge and check your assumptions at the door. Withhold judgment, before you. Like run in like a bull in the China shop, you know,
[00:24:06] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: yeah.
[00:24:06] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: actually, that'd be interesting.
[00:24:08] So I can think of bosses, you know, in my past where all of a sudden I got a new boss or, or it was some other senior leader that, you know, I was aware of or, or, or peer and somebody came in and you know, where there were mistakes made, you know, where there was a negative impact on how I felt about them or how I collaborated with them rightly or wrongly.
[00:24:28] Can you think of any examples like that? Like what are, what are some of the, not, not to do's because this episode is kind of really turning into something around, know, how do you help ramp up and transition into a new organization as a talent leader? And it also directly relates to how do you help the leaders relying on you into the organization, right.
[00:24:51] To help them with those, the onboarding and ramping up.
[00:24:55] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: I can't help. But you said, you know, how do you do, how do you help them? Keep going back to the hi, I'm from HR, I'm here to help. Right. And then uh, the operators roll their eyes and say, sure you are.
[00:25:06] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, it's gotta be a Saturday night live skit or something, right?
[00:25:11] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, that applies and no matter role you're going into, right? Like people. I believe have some kind of value that's around being of service or contributing or helping or, adding value or progressing, whatever it is for each individual out there. so that value can often drive our behaviors, but sometimes it's like the overused strength, right? Do I want to lead with this and as that, what they need? And so when I think about that, So something that comes to mind around don't do around. Don't add things to the agenda. Don't add complexity, know, don't add confusion. You know, this is, this is not the time in your career when you're new to a role in a company.
[00:26:02] Add that to the mix.
[00:26:04] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay.
[00:26:04] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: goes flip over to the, well, what do you do? ask questions. You, listen, you observe, share your observation. Sure. Why not? And you want to be very intentional around where can I add value? In the first three months, the first six months, the first 12 months and beyond I say, don't jump in and just say, you know what, we're going to turn the apple cart over.
[00:26:30] And, you know, suddenly we're just going to do a whole bunch of things differently. luck with that. Because they're there for a reason.
[00:26:38] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:26:38] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: so, if there's change to be made. Okay, great. Figure out the best way to influence and get buy-in for the change. And sometimes that's not around, we're going to do it You know, let's do a 180 here. Okay.
[00:26:55] So how can we. You know, how can we progress things and implement changes slowly by and adding in, or, or removing pieces evolving what we have to an even better and stay what the company is going to need done.
[00:27:14] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. I think you know, that, what did. What do we need to add in what do we need to subtract? Like it's so it's so key. I think it's when, when you talked about actually don't add in confusion and complexity, what went through my head is also don't start yanking things off the shelf and saying, oh no, we don't need that.
[00:27:32] And we're stopping doing that immediately. that would be something to avoid, right? Helping leaders and remembering yourself in a new situation. Like my only role in this. Is to be ear to the ground is to learn the business is to get to know people and understand what's important here and start to create a picture, right.
[00:27:53] An accurate picture. I think of mistakes. We've covered some of them already. It's asking. Why do you do this right versus, oh, tell me about how you can say, tell me about how why we do it this way. You know, I'm just, but in a curious way, like, you know, I'm just curious, like what, how can we do it this order?
[00:28:15] You know what
[00:28:15] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: how did we get here? You know,
[00:28:17] they.
[00:28:17] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: There's ways to, to, to put it in a way that, you know, you're being considerate of not wanting, you're not trying to put somebody on that defense in that defensive spot. So also. Really reactive, you know, to, to things like, oh my God, why are they doing it that way?
[00:28:32] And then jumping in or getting too involved, getting too, too close to the work. If you're meant to be crafting strategy and understanding how things are going, it's not involving people and not, and most importantly, not respecting strengths and, and forgetting that things are a certain way. And these people are here.
[00:28:53] And they've been doing the best they can, based on what they knew. Right. And you mentioned something to me in the, in the, in the green room earlier about, One of the things that it's important to be conscious of is what are you following when you come in? You don't always know exactly what went before and how sensitive people might be or not about your predecessor, about how things are currently set up.
[00:29:17] And it could take a while for some of that to open up. So it's, it's trust that they'll share that in time. You have to be open to hearing it.
[00:29:25] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Well, and, and you, you mentioned earlier about, you know, the, the eternal desire to earn the right to be at the table.
[00:29:33] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah,
[00:29:34] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Well, if you want to not get invited to the table, then go do some of these
[00:29:39] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: go do some of these things. Yeah. Yeah. Cause to me it's, it's, it's, it's interesting, right? Like it's just how it's textbook, how to create resistance.
[00:29:48] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yeah. And I don't know that, you know, for very long, the bull in the China shop is going to get a, an invitation to the, to the table and to the conversation. And, and that's where I keep coming back to the, you know, learning and asking powerful questions that, don't put people on guard, but Yeah.
[00:30:07] Really generate. Hmm. That's a good question. You know, I never thought of it that way, you know, and, and then that generates more ideas. The other thing I would say that is important to do as a new leader with your team or with others is, you know, really pay attention and read the room because not everyone's going to be excited and not everyone's an extrovert and they're not all going to jump up in uh, participate in conversations.
[00:30:32] And so what is that quiet person holding onto that? They'd like you to know that they just don't feel comfortable with jumping up and telling you.
[00:30:42] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. it's it, it takes time to, for people to warm up. And I think also it's important, you know, you touched on change management, you know, like you're coming in, you are changed right there. In a nutshell, so helping people manage that change, which they're automatically going to find a little tricky.
[00:30:59] We all do. You know, I'm talking about the pillars of change management, which are really key. It's acknowledged. Where they're at, right. Involve them to the degree you can in decision-making or, analysis, whatever it looks like involve in some way and provide lots of contexts. And sometimes the context it context is sharing your intentions.
[00:31:18] Right. So coming out and. So my sole role for the next three months is literally to gather, to gather information, to listen, to get to know you, to know what's important to you and the broader organization to our stakeholders. And from there, I'm going to create a kind of holistic picture, clearer picture of what I think our opportunities are and where we might want to start.
[00:31:44] And I'm going to, that back and we're going to talk about it. And then here's when we might expect to see some changes start to happen. It might be at whatever, you know, four or five, six months mark. So I'm not in a race here, but telling people that I think could be. just, think we forget that stuff, but I think that would be so helpful.
[00:32:02] So many leaders, especially when I think about earlier in my career, which has come in and they're just, they're not trying to be the bull in the China shop and certainly would be mortified. If anybody told them they were, they were trying to prove themselves and make impact early. Right. and look good.
[00:32:16] And yet they got the opposite impact because it was too much of a rush and they didn't talk about. Even if that wasn't their intention, what their intention was to declare it upfront.
[00:32:25] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: yeah.
[00:32:26] it's kind of the. That flip side of the bull in the China shop, I got to have an impact. I've got to leave my imprint, which, you know, a lot of experienced leaders in thought leadership will say, yeah, like what, what's your impact in the first three months to six months, it doesn't have to be a B bam, a big wow.
[00:32:45] And something disruptive. so, there's that flip side to the bull in the China shop of, you know what I mean? Be a little self-like right. And, take your time. And, and, and we that in, so that happens a little more naturally. And the other thing I would say for leaders going into new companies or new roles it doesn't have to be your idea.
[00:33:13] So how might you support and help others? Polo that great idea and make something awesome happen. There's your contribution?
[00:33:27] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and maybe it's something too that they've been seeing a place for for a long time. And previously there was no appetite for it, or, you know what I mean? Like, The new leader coming in could be that opportunity to, to, to put it forward and make something happen that they already know would be an excellent.
[00:33:45] Interesting. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, we've covered a lot of ground in terms of sort of like a little master course in, in ways to, to onboard yourself as a, as a new talent meet leaders, it's out leader in a new organization, really. And, but also about, to think about when you are, crafting programs around Particularly new senior leaders. Right. And, and, and what's what it's important to think about in getting people to be thoughtful and intentional as they come into a new organization.
[00:34:16] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: And I think, you know, of all the, the tips or the advice that would be that latter piece would be at the top of the list. Be very very thoughtful and intentional about. How do I want to be? How do I show up? What do I want to do? And feelings do I want to generate?
[00:34:38] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I like that a What a good place to stop? What feelings do I want to generate? Thank you so much. Melissa, as usual a million golden nuggets in one half-hour episode. I really appreciate you coming back on the show and sharing uh, about your experience and, and, and your wisdom in this area.
[00:34:55] Been a true pleasure. I look forward to the next one.
[00:34:58] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--guest661316--melissa: Yes. Thank you. And, thank you again. I love these conversations and I think even for myself, I'm, we're, we're having these conversations, I learn things over again and new things, so, I really appreciate it and I value the opportunity to have these chats.
[00:35:14] melissa-law_recording-1_2022-04-13--t08-32-36pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure. Liberty's lucky to have you so all the best. Thank you.
