[00:00:00] So, what is organizational culture? What are all the components and how do you create the culture that you really want? Well, these are complex questions, and yet they're critical to the work of talent leaders. I invite you to listen to this episode for some insights around building and sustaining culture.
[00:02:15] My guest is Cura Torco, who is chief people officer at assent compliance in Ottawa, Ontario. Kara has an intriguing background in that she did not spend the majority of her career in HR. She holds a B commerce and is a CGA and has led employee experience and people for the last four years. I really enjoyed this conversation.
[00:02:36] Cura is passionate about building a strong culture at ascent and has built a strong infrastructure along with her team. I know you'll enjoy hearing all about it.
[00:02:45] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Hello, and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today I'm joined by Kira Torco, who is the head of HR and talent, chief people officer at ascent Kira, thank you for coming and welcome to this.
[00:03:04] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Great. It's great to be here, Lisa. Thanks for inviting.
[00:03:07] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So would you please start us off by just sharing a little bit about who you are and what you do, and also your past. We can get to that maybe as a follow on question, because you've had quite an unconventional path into talent management, any.
[00:03:22] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Sure. A great, great starting question Mesa. So, right now, as you noted, I am the chief people officer at a scent and a scent is a really fast growing scaling software company. In Ottawa. When I joined the company, about four years ago, we were at 300 team members and now we're at a thousand or close to a thousand.
[00:03:43] We've got a bit of an internal pool going on when we'll hit that 1000 team member. And I think that, my background lends itself to this kind of opportunity. One that's constantly evolving and changing because I don't come from a background of strictly HR I've evolved and changed throughout my career to get to this point in time.
[00:04:05] I come from a background of having led teams from a very early age in my career. And over the last 25 years, I've led teams in a wide range of industries and sectors and departments and functions. I've owned the HR function previously, but had never really focused or specialized in it. And so I really bring a much broader, a pretty broad and varied perspective.
[00:04:31] To the talent role in the organization at, at a scent, and what I like to say you know, stemming from my background is that I solve business puzzles through the lens of people. And I do think that all the different parts of my path and my career. You know, have really been able to roll up to enable us to be successful in our team medicine.
[00:04:54] So, one of the things I'm, you know, I'm really proud of in my career is just before joining a scent, I was the chief operating officer of the coaching association of Canada and my role at the coaching association and that, and the role of that organization is to drive. Excellence in coaching across 67 national sports, whether it be for coaches who are driving high performance at Olympic and world cup levels, or, you know, for those of you who are listening from Canada, you know, is driving great leadership for.
[00:05:25] Tidbits hockey or, you know, Tim bits soccer. which to me is really about great leadership to drive great humans and great development in people. And so I'm able to bring the business perspective, plus the thinking about driving performance to the role at ascent, and I, and I think that I translate that thinking.
[00:05:46] Into lots of different ways that the organization, how can we do something different and optimize some really different skillsets to enable us to be successful in.
[00:05:56] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, it's interesting. I really appreciate, you know, you saying, I look at business puzzles through the lens of people. Cause I think it sounds like that's, that's been the case all throughout your career. So just for the listeners, just so that they know Kira actually has a bachelor of commerce degree and, and is a CGM.
[00:06:12] So really coming from a more financially focused operations kind of background and making the leap. So, so what, what made you say yes to the leap into, into talent management and HR?
[00:06:24] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Well, you know, it's interesting to me to set it aside. I've, I've, I've managed teams, you know, my, my, one of my very first jobs I was about 22 or 23 years old and I ended up managing a bank branch. some people will say it was coincidence, but think the, the popular saying of, you gotta be prepared to have these coincidences, to happen.
[00:06:43] I started leading people very early in my career and, you know, I also led them when I was enrolled in high school and university. And I just really always loved that part of my. So regardless of what sector I was in or what I was doing, whether it be in finance or whether it be in research or where they've been sport, or whether it'd been in startups, I always gravitated to the people and how was I going to optimize them to help us achieve our.
[00:07:10] And our goals. And so when I was looking at a new opportunity, right before I started a sense, I had a chance to meet with the CEO Andrew, and, you know, we connected really well. And what he said to me is, you know, I've got a VP of HR role I know that's not something, you know, you've focused in, in your career.
[00:07:30] The skillsets that you have are ones that I'm, really interested in. And we'll surround you with a great team of team members who may have different experiences from you and different kinds of, experience within HR. But I really want you to be able to lead them and motivate them and think about the full, team across the organization in different ways.
[00:07:51] And so for me, I those commitments held true and it's been a perfect fit for my skillset.
[00:07:55] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: What a beautiful turn of events, right? finding a kind of new avenue to explore you know, how you get results right through people. So, you talked about the fact that a scent has grown exponentially really since you joined. So over four years, 300 to 1000 and. do you adapt with scale over time?
[00:08:16] What are some ideas or insights you can share with us?
[00:08:19] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: I remember when I first joined the organization, you know, I knew every single person, and I'd be able to walk into the kitchen and, you know, know something about everybody that I saw in there. But since that point in time, we've evolved, the number of teams, globally we've expanded into, you know, multiple different countries.
[00:08:36] Certainly COVID has changed how we engage with team members as we've, as we've expanded, not just hiring into particular locations, but hiring more remotely. And you just don't, you don't necessarily have those. Those meaningful moments one-on-one in the same way anymore. And I truly believe that culture, a big part of culture is the accumulation of those meaningful moments.
[00:09:00] The remembering something about Lisa that you learned a few years ago and knowing that that's how she's motivated and that's how she's engaged. So you really have to enable your leaders and the leaders, managers, and you know, all the way through the organization. Ensure that those things are important to them and that I'm making sure that they realize little moments matter when you're trying to, when you're trying to drive behaviors and you're trying to motivate people across the organization.
[00:09:30] So becoming an enabler, but at the same time, for example, we run a program called postcards with. and I love it because we have these postcards that then we ask people to share information about themselves, almost like pen pals, with different people across the organization.
[00:09:48] And I read those, like you wouldn't believe, like I asked so many people to share, send me their postcard with a purpose so I can get to know them. I keep that information in. Look at it before I'm connecting with you. I'm not just connecting with you to understand your business project. I'm connecting with you to understand, where you've come from and how I help you get to a different place in the organization.
[00:10:09] So making sure we have those non. Business conversations is really important. Driving, L and D through great coaching which is really individualized and helping people optimize their skillsets is important. And then it's, you know, still making sure we have moments of joy the things that got you to 300 or to 500.
[00:10:30] Aren't the things that are necessarily going to get you to a thousand, but you can't forget about them. You have to do those things and. Other things. So it's the combination of data. You have to start making decisions more based on data, but not forgetting the people as part of that. Part of that as well.
[00:10:48] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: there's so much to that. So when you, when you talk about how, for instance, you personally really appreciate the postcards with a purpose program and, and that ability to, seek out those small moments, to connect with people, how did you submit. Leaders within the organization, especially because they're spread out, it's a global variety of rules.
[00:11:07] How did you support them in embracing that approach as you scaled?
[00:11:12] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: we also have a number of other tools in the organization that we certainly encourage you use of one is a program that you might be familiar with called Bonusly, which is a peer recognition tool that everyone is in. I see what I'm rewarding Lisa for and what Lisa's rewarding James for and what James is rewarding Adrian for.
[00:11:30] know, when people get, different points for doing things and then they can convert those points into either gift cards or they can convert them into. More points to other people. And within a sense, we've created a culture where people are helpful and really wanting to engage others.
[00:11:45] And more often than not people convert these points into giving them to other people which is, which I think is really fantastic. And so you start to just, you start to see that this is how people are behaving and this is what people are doing and it drives others to do it. So certainly some, and everyone in the company sees every single Bonusly allocation.
[00:12:05] So. I see what people are being rewarded for. So we make sure that we are rewarding and motivating for, you know, for the right things. we also like when we're hiring managers, you know, when you, when you first started an organization, can't always have. For management and leadership skills, you know, you're bringing in people who are technical experts, but now, as you grow and you're evolving your team, you can make sure you're training people, not just on the technical aspects of their role, but on leadership and people development.
[00:12:34] And, you know, my team runs learning and development for the organization. So I can make sure that those are the things we're training people on. And those are the things we're making important in, you know, performance reviews and performance conversation. So you need to tie all your different leavers together.
[00:12:52] You need to tie in your performance management with your rewards tools, with your ongoing engagement feedback, making sure all of those things are connected around those values of, having deep relationships, and having, integrity, making sure that those things all shine through and all of your practice.
[00:13:12] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. That's, that's something that, that I think I've spoken before about, on the show about this idea of embedding and threading, right? Like taking Language practices how things get done around here, right. And, and implementing them into our systems in a variety of ways you call them leavers.
[00:13:28] Right. So that they're tied together. So there's a cohesive picture really right. An experience of, of how people understand first. This is how we want people to show up here. This is what we're expecting and then how they're measured, how they're recognized and so on and so forth. So another thing that comes to mind is you, you mentioned we, when we were chatting earlier, before we hit record that you've put together along with your team an onboarding program that you're particularly proud of.
[00:13:55] Could you walk us through a little bit about what went into that program and what's made it successful?
[00:14:01] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yeah, we've been fortunate enough, you know, when one of my premises in the organization is to use as many best practices from other parts of the business as possible. And so, you know, we, we call our team, the employee experience team because we really focus on what do people experience from the moment they connect with a scent all the way through their life cycle.
[00:14:22] And so putting ourselves in those shoes, When the first day we joined the organization, we don't, I don't want people to be handing in, copies of check forms and filling out tax documents and, learning about, where the, you know, where the bathrooms are in the building.
[00:14:39] I want them to be experiencing our culture. So we do as much as possible before. So everything that's paperwork related you do before you joined the organization. So that the first thing you do when you join the organization you're meeting with your manager now over zoom, you know, less so in the office, but you're meeting over zoom to really get a warm welcome about the organization, and what you can expect in the next bit.
[00:15:06] we also send, material. Two weeks ahead of time, a week ahead of time, a few days ahead of time so that people know exactly what to expect, because we've all started a new job on day one and going in not knowing what's going to be going on that day, can cause anxiety and anxiety is and put you in the best place to be learning about your new, about a new opportunity.
[00:15:28] So we do is we try to relieve as much of that as possible. That, when you come in on day one, you're greeted with your cohort and you really focus on learning about the culture, learning about the vision, learning about the mission. We're in a space in supply chain, data management, where nobody comes in knowing this space.
[00:15:47] So, no, one's an expert in our field when they come in. And so we've designed our onboarding to reflect that because when you're, you know, not know you're joining a new company, but you're joining a brand new. Space. So we have to really back out of that and make sure that we train people in a, you know, in a very logical way that they feel comfortable learning about new, about newness.
[00:16:08] So we probably have a lot more personalized training in the first few days, and even weeks of our onboarding rather than. sending people, we do have an LMS and we certainly blend our, you know, our training between the modalities, but we play so that we place a bigger emphasis on, classroom training, whether it be on zoom or in person over those first few, few days and weeks, and our trainers are experts in that.
[00:16:36] there was very few questions that people can ask during their onboarding, where the trainers have to go back and find out about it. So we really make sure that they are broad-based experts across the business and can bring that value to your first couple of days, understanding the why we're doing something who we're doing it for.
[00:16:54] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it brings, it helps when there's credibility, right. For facilitators trainers you know, establishing that credibility up front because it helps people validate that they made the right decision right. As they join this company.
[00:17:05] this idea of, you've got the program in place and you try to get as much done before somebody actually starts.
[00:17:12] Right. Which I completely agree with. I think it makes a lot of sense. Don't drag them down with filling out forms on day one. and you get them really doing the, the, the conversations that connecting once they're in place and going through the training, With a lot of onboarding programs I hear from clients and, and, you know, in my own experience implementing me, sometimes one of the biggest challenges is just because you build the program doesn't mean they will come and by they, I mean, the leaders, they may not carry through with all of the, the path that you've laid out for them to onboard somebody gracefully.
[00:17:44] W what, what are your thoughts about that? And what, what are your ideas
[00:17:48] on how to overcome that?
[00:17:49] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: our training team is very connected with the enablement teams within departments. And so we designed together the onboarding path that people take, in addition, you know, my, my team that the trading team actually does do.
[00:18:04] Specific training for our sales organization, for our BDRs, for our customer success, for our professional services. And so we're, we're very dedicated to it because that's our sole focus when people have started the organization. You know, if you think about a manager. they've got 15 different responsibilities they've got to take on, but you know, the trainer can really focus on being present and being purposeful about training, you know, for that extended period of time.
[00:18:33] And then we've put in place various different where we might bring people back in, one of the things I also love that we do is we bring cohorts back in about three months into their time, at a sense and they actually spend a bit of time with executives. there'll be a panel and the execs will talk about.
[00:18:52] their experiences. And you know, so people are coming back at different points in time into a more central way to make sure that we're keeping on top of their progress. And so we do have checkpoints along the way, we put in place what outcomes we're expecting, by certain points in time.
[00:19:09] And we're constantly testing out new things
[00:19:12] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So it sounds like your, your team they're very highly involved in all onboarding right in supporting new employees, new leaders coming in my question is more. For the leaders that they will report to you, how do you ensure that they're doing all the things right. To, to create that psychological safety, to build that trust and, and that relationship to ensure that person can be successful beyond what your team's already providing.
[00:19:39] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yeah. You know, and a number of the departments within a scent, have developed ramp programs as well. So once, they've left us, are other people, who are engaged with them. We put in place peer coaching programs so that the, you know, their reliance isn't solely on the manage.
[00:19:55] to be there because the managers obviously have, other team members are supporting, when we're hiring as quickly as we do, there is a lot of people onboarding on an ongoing basis and they're at different stages of their growth and development. So manager might have three different people.
[00:20:11] One who's been there a month. One who's been there for months. And when he's been there, Nine months, so trying to, keep those, aligned is really, we really rely on a lot on peer mentors and other, avenues to make sure that they've got a fulsome support around.
[00:20:27] I would say it's probably some of the things that that we're doing. And then we've got, what do we expect from people at different phases of their onboarding? So we do have some scorecards to be able to assess our people, able to achieve this, you know, we're, you know, this isn't a, grading thing.
[00:20:43] It's just, these are the sorts of things we expect you to be able to do by three months, six months. Nine months in the role. So there is an ability for managers to be able to see how people are tracking against this pro these programs.
[00:20:57] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: It makes good sense. Yeah. I'm really intrigued by the concept of the peer coaching program and the peer mentoring. Cause I I've deliberately built my program, the talent trust, which is a six month program for talent leaders and it's, built around that concept really. So it's, people have access to me and I help them
[00:21:15] learn. And the rest of the people. Participating in the cohort. And it's really brilliant to see just how the group lifts each other up and offers not only support, but really practical consulting in the way of facilitative questions and so on, right. To help people kind of work their way through big challenges.
[00:21:34] So, You know, I think pure coaching has been an under utilized way of, helping people learn in organizations it's catching on much more, you know, some organizations have been ahead of the game for years, but others are just catching on. So in, your particular team, how have you supported right.
[00:21:51] Helping other employees take on that role and do it well,
[00:21:56] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yeah. You know, and I'm, I'm just going to, I'm going to deviate for just a moment if it's okay, Lisa, and, and tell you, you know, I, I'm a, such a firm believer in the power of the, of the cohort. I think you mentioned you used the word cohort, and I think back to an experience I had. I spent, I spent a couple of years in the national research council here in Canada, which is a really large R and D organization that develops technology both early stage innovations, but also supporting industry with a lot of really amazing, you know, scientific and technical advancements.
[00:22:27] And I was part of a leadership program, relatively early on in my career. When I, when I joined there and we were put into cohorts with people who had similar. Interests and desires about how they wanted their career to progress. And that was probably. I'm going to say 2003, 2004. And by the time I left nine or 10 years later, those people in that cohort where some of my closest colleagues and strongest allies in the organization, because you were going through things together at the same time, and they were individuals who.
[00:23:02] Didn't have any control or responsibility over your performance over, you know, they were, they would be cheerleaders for you. But they didn't have any of that sort of, they didn't have any accountability to you. And just to be able to have that. Open dialogue and conversation with people across multiple parts of the organization.
[00:23:21] I think it's just an added element on top of having a peer mentor or a peer coach that is incredibly valuable, you know, and I still 10 years later, still connecting with these people because we lived so many experiences together as we grew up in that organization.
[00:23:37] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I think of the cohort, I went through my coaching education with in my practicum group. We still meet every quarter, approximately, you know, those, those that are available, we'll get on the phone and well have read a book and discuss it, or just catch up on each other's updates. And it's, it's very, very powerful because we, we went through.
[00:23:54] Some hearts and exciting stuff for, for a long period of time together. I
[00:23:59] agree with you. It's very, very, very helpful for learning. I think.
[00:24:04] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: back to the, you know, to the peer partner, something that when I had worked at the coaching association, we had guides on being a mentor. And I always thought we needed that. Also being a mentee. because I think there's, there's power in both. And I think, you know, both get value from those interactions.
[00:24:20] I often learn more from the people that I mentoring than I probably expected, or they may have even learned from me. now I'm talking about things I wish I was doing other than things I have done Lisa, but you know, one of the things, I think is an important skillset is, being a better learner, being a better, mentee, being someone, you know, who knows how to be coached and is open to being coached.
[00:24:41] And so I would say, you know, while we do have guidance and structure, to help the peer mentors, I feel like I probably should be doing more and helping. Be that person being mentored or being that, that mentee, we run a power of women in sales group, which is a more formalized mentorship program, because I think, while we talk a lot about, women in stem, I almost want to add another S on it, women in, you know, science, tech, engineering, medicine, and sales because.
[00:25:08] I always see the same number of women in sales. And so we've been very purposeful at matching mentors and mentees. And, you know, we do provide guidance to the mentees in there about, what do you need from a mentor? I'm the kind of mentor that isn't gonna push anything on you.
[00:25:23] If you're not driven, to be, knowing somewhat what you want and what you're looking for. But I, I probably need to do better at training people to know what that is and how, and how to look for that in articles.
[00:25:35] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, there's always, we're never done, right. There's always opportunities to do more and do better, but it sounds like you've got some, some great fodder there on the, with the power of women sales piece to, to bring over to the other area. And I've got resources to, you know, happy to share.
[00:25:49] Cause, cause I agree with you. I think that if people aren't fully prepared and I don't mean that They're not doing, not doing something. Right, but it's just, you don't know what you don't know. So if somebody is coming into a mentoring program as a mentor, They may have kind of the idea that it's more of a passive role.
[00:26:07] And what I'm hearing you say is, you know, it needs to be active, right? You need to, to, to have a voice and, and help your, your mentor you know, understand what you're looking for. Right. Cause they can't read minds. So. Yeah, really, really important stuff. Now, something you mentioned you've touched on a couple of times that you, you worked at the coaching association which was really around sports and you were the COO there and earlier when we were talking offline, you, explain to me how you see coaching is such an essential leadership skill.
[00:26:35] Would you expand on that a little bit for us?
[00:26:38] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yes, I'm just trying to think. I have so much, I want to say about this, Lisa and I'm trying to, you know, the right the right way to come into this, but, to me, a great coach is truly invested in helping others succeed. And, you know, as a great leader, I oftentimes think about my job as, you know, how do I, how do I become irrelevant in my role?
[00:26:58] how do I actually, become, not as needed because I've developed others, to be able to do the, these sorts of things. So I really just think, great coaches are great leaders. Always about the people around them and, you know, raising them up and how are you optimizing their performance, not just individually, but, as a team.
[00:27:18] And so I think that coaching isn't something that comes intuitively. two people, I do think that it's, different than being a manager. You know, it's different than being a supervisor. The outcomes you get from coaching are different than those you're going to get from outcomes.
[00:27:34] The outcomes from managing and supervising, I've done a lot of coaching workshops. And in the first question I always ask everybody in the room is like, tell me about, tell me what you learned from the greatest coach. people will talk about, they helped me feel confident in a way.
[00:27:50] I didn't know that I had, they helped me, you know, really become part of a team. they helped me evolve into being, you know, a better partner, you know, a better friend, a better colleague, no one ever says to me, they taught me how to, shoot a three-pointer from the corner, you know, in a,
[00:28:07] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: doing a
[00:28:08] good job on yeah. Good. Do a great job summarizing. KPIs quarterly results.
[00:28:15] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yeah. You know, they never talk about those sorts of things or they always talk about how they made them feel, and you know, to me, feelings drive behavior, which ultimately drive results. That's excellence in the workplace. You know, there's always going to be someone who can tell you how to write a better memo.
[00:28:28] But it's a unique individual who's going to inspire you. I sometimes tell this story to, you know, two young kids and I know Lisa, I'm just going all over the place here, but, I remember learning tennis, more so as a. And I had this coach whose name I don't even remember, but I remember how he made me feel is that I would never watch the ball going to my racket.
[00:28:48] I turned my head, the minute the ball would come close to the racket, and he'd always say, you know, look at the ball, look at the ball. And then one day he said to me, Kara, when you hit this next ball, Tell me what direction the ball was spinning when it hit your racket. And I was like, oh, okay.
[00:29:04] I want to be smart. I want to be able to answer that question. And so I watched the ball all the way to my racket. You know, when he told me to watch the ball to my racket, of course I never done it, but he knew I was competitive enough that I didn't want to not be able to answer something. And so it was really about, that to me is a really seminal, you know, example
[00:29:24] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well that it's the premise of a book. That very thing, the inner game of tennis. Right. And then
[00:29:30] the author and I'm I'm forgetting. Oh, no, it is. I I've read it. It's a great book. I'll put it in the show notes. The inner game of tennis, but it's this idea of focusing on one thing so that your attention is pulled there, right?
[00:29:41] If you tend to be looking elsewhere, but then he later extrapolated it to the inner game of work. It's actually a really excellent book.
[00:29:49] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: my goodness. I didn't, I didn't
[00:29:50] know that, you know,
[00:29:51] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: here you are. You're brilliant. And you, well, it's such a great analogy though, from the tennis thing, it's something we can all relate to. and the other thing too, You were talking about coaching as the essential leadership skill.
[00:30:03] And I just want to go back to that because what was coming up for me is, as you were describing it, it's really important to leadership because it helps leaders see through that lens of people you mentioned at the start of our call. Right. Really, really important. And I always think coaching is more powerful.
[00:30:20] Than just telling people what to do, because it's about agency and about self-trust because if people are able to manage the mind's world, manage their mindsets, right. And reframe difficulty and, and feel like there's, they have a sense of control step into that, then they're going to demonstrate more accountability, more autonomy.
[00:30:39] They're going to. To lead and operate with more of that CEO mindset that everybody wants. Right. So, yeah, it's really, really important. And pivotal, I think.
[00:30:49] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Well, and I also think that, you know, one of the crucial skills of being a great coach is being incredibly curious, not asking the simple question, but asking the one that's going to, you know, dig to another layer. And to me, the deeper you dig, the more you understand somebody and the greater relationship you're going to have with them.
[00:31:06] So it's just a self fulfilling. Prophecy, you ask great questions. You're going to dig deeper. You're going to know more, which is going to enable you to be a better coach, which just enables you to be, just a better, you know, leader in your organization.
[00:31:19] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Absolutely. Absolutely. So when you think about, you've been in HR employee experience talent now for, for about four years after spending, the bulk of your career in kind of related, but slightly different areas. What would you say is the biggest challenge for talent leaders today?
[00:31:37] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Am I'm I'm I'm, I'm just picking one. Right.
[00:31:40] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, there's probably a whole list. I got it. Yes.
[00:31:44] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: I think for me, finding the right balance between, data-driven decisions and, you know, ones that are there are people driven. So how do you use data to make decisions about.
[00:31:55] people, certainly we're a, you know, we're a SAS company. We collect a lot of data about our customers, suppliers. And so we tend to always look to what the data is, but it doesn't always tell the full story. You know, I think we all know that in the talent management space it may tell you directionally, I, you know, sometimes.
[00:32:13] In slicing that data and we're making assumptions, you know, that maybe aren't based on the, right type of information. So I think finding that balance in the talent space, around how you use data, where it's meaningful, where you use it to support a decision and where you use it to drive a decision or where you use it as simply.
[00:32:33] Huh. I want to be curious about that and understand more about why that data is. So I think being able to wear both of those hats is a really interesting puzzle, certainly talent. You know, everyone's talking right now about, you know, talent retention total rewards and compensation, which, was certainly certainly a big piece.
[00:32:51] Making sure work is purpose is purpose-driven. I'm really fortunate that the ascent products, you know, is really a really fascinating, place in industry, you know, supporting sustainability for our customers, as well as managing their supply chain. A year ago, no one talked about supply chain at the dinner table, but now people are talking about the Suez canal and they're not able to get their televisions.
[00:33:13] And the cucumbers at the store are 4 99 when they used to be 99 cents. So, I think, you know, the purpose of our company. We're at a really great place, but I think that that's just going to become even more and more important that the purpose of your company is really aligned with the purpose of your team members and how they want to have impact in and give back.
[00:33:34] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. So, so making sure everybody understands that and has a common language to describe it and, live into it.
[00:33:40] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Yeah.
[00:33:41] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Makes sense. Well, so, so thank you so much for joining me. We're we're, we're nearing the end of, of our conversation as it's usual. It just flies by before we wrap up, but we had a, what would be your biggest piece of advice to, to offer talent leaders who are, who are newer into the space?
[00:34:01] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: Oh, my goodness. I'm going to come back to a comment I made a little bit earlier, but that really the culture is the accumulation of meaningful moments. So small things really matter. Yes. You need to be able to think about the big picture around what skills you need, you know, and how you want to compensate and reward your teams.
[00:34:20] But at the same time, Small things that, there's Easter eggs hidden in the office at Easter. And you remember, you know, that it's somebody's birthday. Like don't forget that, you've got so much to do over here, but people are gonna remember those small things. And that's how people are going to talk about the culture of your company.
[00:34:40] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so wise and it really stands out for me, the accumulation of smaller moments. Thank you so much for sharing that. So many golden nuggets here. I'm looking forward to doing the show notes, cause it'll be fun to kind of pick out the key things to highlight.
[00:34:55] It's really been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.
[00:34:58] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--guest338237--keira-: thanks for the opportunity, Lisa. I appreciate it.
[00:35:01] keira-torkko-april-27_recording-1_2022-04-27--t06-45-28pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure.
