[00:00:00] What do DEI efforts in the military and in the American banking association have in common? Well, they both benefited from the expertise and support of today's guest. Listen to this episode for her fascinating career story, insightful examples of inclusion and compelling stories of how she's helped many teams embrace DEI.
[00:02:18] And heart. My guest is Naomi Mercer, who is senior vice president of diversity equity and inclusion for the American bankers association. In this role, Naomi supports member banks with their DEI efforts and programs. Previous to that, she spent 25 years in the U S military in varying capacities, including HR officer to large units, to working at the Pentagon, to being deployed in Iraq and teaching as a professor at Western.
[00:02:45] I mean, wow. This conversation with Naomi was such a gift for me personally. I'm simply in awe of her depth of expertise and experience in this domain. Prepare to be captivated. Hello, and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today I'm joined by my guest, Naomi Mercer. Naomi is the senior vice president of diversity equity and inclusion at the American bankers association. And I know you'll enjoy our conversation today. Welcome to the show, Naomi.
[00:03:19] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Thank you so much for having me leave.
[00:03:22] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure. So let's begin by having you put us in the picture a little bit about your very diverse and interesting background that brought you to where you are today.
[00:03:32] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Sure. So I had a 25 year military career, my occupational specialty in the army. I was a human resources officer. However, I. I spent about half of my career as an academic. I was a west point professor. And there was some schooling that went into that. So, you I went through a lot of different things with the army.
[00:03:55] As far as, you know, the army would have reductions in force and expansions. And also we were at war. And so that personal readiness piece was really important for my HR career that, you know, we were making sure that our units had the personnel to deploy at the level they needed to deploy at. So that was always a top priority.
[00:04:18] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: so how long could you, cause I think you did quite a few things while you were with the military. So maybe tell us a little bit about those, because I know you were an academic for some time as well. Yeah.
[00:04:28] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Yeah. So I did human resources, jobs at varying levels of responsibility. though my first job as a Lieutenant, I was in a division, which was rather unusual. So I was working in strength management and I kind of had a larger strategic view than a lot of my Lieutenant peers at the time. However, then, you know, I also served in a basic training unit that was doing training for new soldiers all the time.
[00:04:56] That was nonstop. It was very intense.
[00:04:58] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And what was your role there at that?
[00:05:00] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: I was the company executive officer. So there was a commander who was a captain, and then there were EXOS executive officers who were lieutenants. And I was one of those. So, that was actually in the wake of the Aberdeen proving ground. Scandals around sexual harassment with drill sergeants.
[00:05:18] I actually went to Fort Jackson. That's where I did my train, my time in a basic training unit. But the concept there was putting EXOS into those units so that there would be another officer. Because of the issues that had developed with drill sergeants, abusing their power at the time. And a lot of that has since been resolved, thankfully but I was part of that process. But I was also, what's called a battalion S one, which is the personnel officer. I did that on Okinawa. I was simultaneously the headquarters commander because they didn't have enough people that was with a signal battalion. So I learned all about communications. Especially since the unit I was with, they had a communications aperture of two-thirds of them.
[00:06:07] So they, they were very strategically important and our little compound was the number one terrorist target on the island of Okinawa for the us military. And I was in charge of the site defense, you know, and making sure that we were prepared whenever we were PR probed by outside forces. But then I was also a professor at west point. I kind of rotated in and out of that job, I was not permanent faculty. But you know, I went to graduate school, did a tour at west point and then I kind of went back into the operational army. I was a brigade S one. So the personnel officer for brigade, and that was a brigade that was deploying to Iraq.
[00:06:48] So there was a lot of training and a lot of run up to that deployment. And then when we were in Iraq, I was the personnel officer, you know, our unit was about four or 5,000 people, but we were the headquarters for a fob, a forward operating base of about 15,000. And in addition to running our personnel, I was also the sexual assault response coordinator for the entire fob.
[00:07:10] So I would get all the cases or the reports would come to me when a sexual assault had occurred. And I would make sure that the victims were receiving the services that they were supposed to receive. And if there was an investigation that chain of command was informed and that that investigation was proceeding, you know, in a, a fair manner.
[00:07:34] And then, you know, we were also as part of my personnel officer duties, we were responsible for the casualty notification piece. You know, my unit was very, very lucky. We only had. To, combat fatalities and one maiming. We actually had more, more deaths from suicide. During that time, Yeah, it's very tough.
[00:07:56] But the family, regardless of what happens, the family has to be notified within 24 hours. So we had a part in making sure that that notification was going up the chain as quickly as possible. It would have to go to the Pentagon and then to a unit where a notification officer could, be ready to.
[00:08:16] give the information to the family about what happened to their, their service member. So that was also a big piece of it too. I was back in school again, back at west point again, and then my final position in the army. My final assignment was working in the Pentagon in the army. G one, one is always personnel.
[00:08:35] So
[00:08:35] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay.
[00:08:37] I see.
[00:08:38] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Right. So I was in the army G one and I ran the Army's gender integration program and the religious accommodation program for three years. And that actually was kind of a perfect storm because I had done my dissertation on religious fundamentalism and feminist dystopian writing. Very esoteric topic.
[00:08:59] Yeah.
[00:09:00] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: We have some record Atwood in that
[00:09:01] dissertation.
[00:09:02] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: That's one of my chapters. Definitely. But I had the gender integration piece, by virtue of my gender and women's studies background. But because I had focused on religious fundamentalism, I knew a lot about world religions. And normally that portfolio was managed by a chaplain, but the chaplain had.
[00:09:22] The chaplain Corps was not putting a new person in there. And so I said, oh, I can do that one. That's easy because I understood world religions. So I understood, religious accommodation in a way that not a lot of other people might have been educated to do.
[00:09:35] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Wow. That is, that is fascinating and inspiring. Well, first of all, I just, I want to acknowledge the work that you did in terms of the, casualty notifications, that sounds really, really tough, and the fact that you weathered it and were, was there to support you know, the people in the families when these, these things came, came along and happened, it's pretty rough.
[00:09:53] So I just want to acknowledge that. And thank you for that now, you know, moving into this. interests that you, that you have that kind of parlayed into your work around genders, gender integration, and the, the religious, what did you call it? Religious
[00:10:05] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Religious accommodation.
[00:10:07] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: accommodations. Yes. Okay. So that. like your, your background understanding different world religions would be, would play perfectly into that. I remember my mom being really fascinated in her later years and really studying multiple religious religions and really enjoying learning what they had in common and what was different. And so on.
[00:10:26] Tell us a little bit about, what religious accommodation could look like when, cause I think you told me in the green room that you were you know, either one. 2 million people. When you were in this particular role that you had to think about how to make this, this work, put us in the picture a little bit.
[00:10:43] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Sure. So, when I took over the religious accommodation portfolio, we were in the process of making certain religious accommodations approved at a much lower level. So prior to this, the, the G one, which is a three-star general had to approve. Every single religious accommodation. And so the, the three that were the most frequently asked for were the ones that were going into this policy and that was being able to grow a beard.
[00:11:14] So this applies to Muslim men six. Yes. But also like some Christian Orthodox Orthodox Jews. Right? So the beard was frequently asked. Hi job, which is most particular to Muslim women. And then there was a, a kind of third option, which I think it only applies to six because you could wear a turban.
[00:11:40] And would not have to cut hair on your body, including, so it's, it's the hair on your head as well as your beard, if you were a man so that it could be, there were ways they had to keep it, according to that accommodation to be in compliance with army regulations, you know? So like if you had a beard longer than two inches, you'd have to roll. But you could still have that beard and no one could make you shave it. So those three were the most commonly asked for religious accommodations. And we were able to put those into a policy that they were approved at a much lower level than a three star general in the Pentagon, you know, which of course had taken months and months to do, you know, normally took six months to a year to get that through the process. But a lower level commander could then approve that, in a matter of weeks.
[00:12:30] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. So that's a huge impact and really a sign of respect. You know, we're not going to make you wait around and wonder if it's going to get approved for six months to a year, but rather we're gonna take action and, and, you
[00:12:43] know, I'm trying to make this happen because it's reasonable. Mm, interesting.
[00:12:47] Okay. So with this role with the religious accommodation, the gender integration, so then you've moved into your current role, which is, is really focused on. diversity, equity and inclusion, and you're supporting from what I understand. So the American banking association has member banks as part of it.
[00:13:05] So what does that look like in terms of your, your daily work? How do you support these members?
[00:13:13] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Sure. So we have about 2,800 member banks. I believe there are about 5,000 banks in the United States. So we're, we're actually the largest banking trade association. you know, when I am in that member facing role. So when people say, well, can you explain what you do? And I'm like, I'm a consultant for banks on DNI specifically.
[00:13:33] But I'm also, you know, my services are provided to our banks for free, you know, this is part of a member benefit that they receive for being part of the American bankers association. So my day-to-day, it actually varies widely. But I would say that that consulting with banks is usually something I do on a fairly frequent basis where I have a call with one or two bankers from an organization who wants some guidance around a DNI initiative, or they say, we're just getting started.
[00:14:04] What do we do first? or even recommendations, for Outside consultants to bring in to help them. You know, so there's a whole range of, discussions that I have with bankers about things that are working about things that are not working for them and what they could do instead.
[00:14:21] And even just strategically, what do they want to do next? Right? Because some of them are like, well, we've done this and this, and now we're not sure what to do, And so we, we kind of, Brainstorm, what would work best for their culture, and tailored to their workforce and what they've already done.
[00:14:39] So I would say the consulting piece is really big and I do that quite frequently.
[00:14:43] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I find this so interesting, cause you're kind of this call a friend consultants over at ABA, right. And, and people could be at all different points in their journey around DEI implementation and support. And so when.
[00:14:58] People call into you. What would you say is kind of the, for you, the thing you're most passionate about that you want them to understand, regardless of where they are in their journey inclusion
[00:15:10] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: That is what I want them to understand. You know, I think we get a little too caught up in the diversity part of D and I, and I basically, when I define diversity equity and inclusion, I usually I'll give these definitions and some of the presentations I do. And then I'll say, what I want you to remember is this equity and inclusion are processes.
[00:15:32] Diversity is your outcome, right? So if you get the equity and the inclusion pieces, right. The diversity is going to follow. because a lot of people are, are really, you know, and this is an HR thing and a talent management thing is that we want to make sure we're recruiting and hiring diverse or people from diverse backgrounds and underrepresented groups, which is fantastic.
[00:15:54] However, if you don't have that inclusion piece in place or people don't feel that they're being equitably treated, they're gonna leave out the. You know, so I really emphasize the inclusion piece first, equity's a little harder to get at because what may be a barrier for me is not a barrier for someone else.
[00:16:13] And so it's harder to find. our tie, identify what some of those barriers are, but there are ways to do it. And I, you know, frequently talk about what those things are with bankers or policies, that could help shape their equity in a better way. But it's, it's really that inclusion piece.
[00:16:30] It's the interpersonal relationships, we we've heard it and it's a bit of a trite saying, but people don't leave organizations. They leave managers. And that's about that interpersonal relationship, you know? So are your managers implementing inclusive leadership practices? You know, how are they treating the people on their team?
[00:16:49] Because if they're not treating them in an inclusive way, they're probably going to leave, you know, or there'll be more willing to leave. So I really try to focus on that inclusion.
[00:17:00] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And so when you're consulting with these different member banks, are you working with the talent management folks? The HR folks, sometimes C suite who who's, who are your, who are
[00:17:12] your clients?
[00:17:13] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: it's a range. some organizations are large enough. They have their own chief diversity officer. but that's usually some of our larger banks are our community banks that tend to be smaller. Smaller organizations, you know, usually less than a thousand people, but maybe as few as like 30, that the DEI responsibilities are going to be an add on for someone frequently.
[00:17:33] It is that HR. You know that chief of HR or someone in the HR space, it's not always depends on how the bank is structured. So it's usually whoever has those DNI responsibilities. But frequently the CEO for the bank is on the call, you know, or other executives because they understand that this massive. they they're the leaders for their organization and they know the D and I matters for their workforce. And so they're on that call to.
[00:18:03] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Which is huge that leading from the top and really setting the tone. Do you ever run into challenges, whether it's the C, kind of level or otherwise where, you know, the buy-in the understanding is, is more of a struggle.
[00:18:19] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Yeah, occasionally I do. So I actually did a presentation to one bank to their board of directors because the CEO called me and he said, My BA my board of directors, doesn't get why D and I is important. I need you to talk to them. So I did a presentation with them and we had a conversation afterward.
[00:18:40] I think that it, and from my, the feedback I received. CEO later, he felt that it was effective just to like help them start changing their mindset. And that, that was one of, you know, he feels that he now has more support from his board of directors in the DNI initiatives that he wants to do for his bank.
[00:19:05] Right.
[00:19:06] So
[00:19:06] that does happen from time to time.
[00:19:08] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, well, for sure. And everybody's at a different place with this, right. And their understanding of it and you know, their role in it. And what can they do? You know, it's got, we've got to paint a practical picture sometimes for people of what inclusion actually looks like. You know what I've learned with some previous guests talking about D DEI is, the common theme is.
[00:19:26] behaving inclusively isn't is active. It's not passive. It's not just being muted. It's actually, when you see something that's not right, is it speaking up it's choosing to, to make inclusive choices. So, you know, in your presentation, what would you, say was kind of the, to the degree you can gauge this?
[00:19:45] What was the most convincing part? For this board of directors?
[00:19:49] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Well, I usually talk about the business case, you know, because people like to know the number. Though, I found that most people's people who are already in leadership positions. They know the business case, they understand why having inclusive and diverse teams is more productive and it's better for business, but I do, I go, I go through some of the statistics about, diverse and inclusive teams, outperform homogenous teams by like 75%, as long as they've done the work of cohering as a team.
[00:20:26] Right. If they're not coherent as a team, they don't outperform homogenous teams. You know, so we talk about that. I, you know, I have some statistics from the pandemic about how, when you have a more diverse board of directors, The organization performs better, that includes not just gender and race, but generational diversity.
[00:20:45] So that if you have at least a 30 year gap between your youngest and oldest board member, you get a level of diversity of thought that can outperform or help that company perform better. So I do bring in a lot of the statistics but the, the business case is not. By itself is just not enough. You know, you have to have the head and the heart. And so, you know, I usually talk about organizations, different approaches to D and I and then there are five that have been identified by the global diversity equity and inclusion benchmarks. But really what I see happening in one of those is the business case. Right? One of those approaches is purely the business case, but what I actually see happening in organizations is that they use a combined approach to D and I, and so it is the head and the heart.
[00:21:38] And so, you know, sometimes what's really compelling is. Telling a story to, you know, boards of directors or leaders about how you know, being inclusive. Made a difference in an organization or made a difference with retention of employees and how diversity helps them, you know, helped an organization tap into a new market segment that they hadn't been able to get into before.
[00:22:08] so it's usually those stories, I think that are more.
[00:22:14] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I agree. I think it appeals to people on an emotional level. Right. And, and, gets to that heart aspect so that they kind of get out of their heads. They, they connect differently. Okay. So there's so many different directions. We could go here. Naomi. So you talked about. This idea that diverse teams, outperform homogenous teams by 75%, which is a big statistic.
[00:22:34] And then you gave the qualifier as long as they are cohering as a team. What does cohering as a team look like?
[00:22:42] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: You know, I think it looks differently with a lot of different teams. However, I think the number one thing that teams need to do is have those uncomfortable covering. it's having conversations that people feel a little bit like, oh, I don't know. I might say the wrong thing, you know, that sort of thing.
[00:23:03] It's having those conversations in order to figure out okay. You and I may look different or we may be different in some way, but we still share certain common values and goals, and toward that end, one of the resources that I developed for our bankers is we have a guide for managers to facilitate these uncomfortable conversations.
[00:23:27] And that guide comes. 16 different modules on D and I topics. So we have one on race. You know, we have one on gender, all the usual topics, but we also have one on weight bias. You know, we have one about caregivers, you know, so we, we tried to get a rate. And each of those modules has like a conversation starter or jumping off point.
[00:23:48] It has discussion questions. It has continued learning resources, but it also has some backup information for that manager who is not an expert in D and I, but it gives them kind of a context for the conversation before they get into it with their team. Right. So we, we develop that tool to kind of facilitate.
[00:24:08] You know, these uncomfortable conversations and you don't need our tool to do this, you can take it from current events, right? I mean, we've just experienced, you know, two massacres in the past 10 days, So this might be a good time for managers to do a check-in with their team about how are you feeling?
[00:24:27] How is this presenting for you? You know, because there, there are certainly some racial elements in the Buffalo massacre, massacre, you know, there are some other elements about, you know, protecting our children or what have you
[00:24:40] with the evil day.
[00:24:42] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well in a, in a Latino community there too at
[00:24:44] Robert elementary.
[00:24:45] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: totally. there, are things that are going to come up for people, but I think when we have those conversations, we all realize we love our kids.
[00:24:54] or our families we, we find out what our shared values are by having those conversations. And I think that's, what's really important helping teams to cohere together, And it's also the common goal of whatever, you know, the team's mission is for the organization.
[00:25:12] How is that valuable to the organization? How is that meaningful for the people working on. whatever project or, part of you know, the organization that is their responsibility.
[00:25:26] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. Yeah. So there's a lot of good stuff in here. So, so going back to the, the, the modules that you mentioned, for instance, the weight bias. So when you talk about these. You know, listeners are often looking for like, what are the practical nuggets here? Like how, what could, what could this do for me? If I were to implement something like this, are these conversation guides so that leaders can facilitate conversations between two employees.
[00:25:51] W where there's been example, weight bias or gender discrimination event, or is it more about the leader in the employee
[00:25:59] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: it's more about a leader having a conversation with their team,
[00:26:04] you know, and the leader is, is there as the facilitator. So they're really not there to put their opinion forward. They're there to facilitate the rest of the team, being able to speak freely in an environment that is psychologically safe. so if we take the weight bias, you know, we might have someone on the team who struggles with their weight currently, and they're, you know, when they go to the doctor because they have a complaint about something and the doctor's like, well, you just need to lose weight, you know, instead of maybe looking for an underlying condition, and then you might learn that there's someone on that team who was.
[00:26:44] But they were able to lose the weight later, but they, you know, a part of their identity was how much they were bullied when they were a little kid, for example, or someone else who might have. Lost a loved one, who was obese and, you know, had all these conditions that developed out of that obesity.
[00:27:04] And you know, they died prematurely because of that. So how do we, navigate that and how do we, you know, understand that sometimes there's a bias against weight in our hiring practices. And so someone who, Maybe a little more award you PLA, you know, then, then another candidate gets passed over when it comes to the interview, So how do we, how do we make sure that that bias is not entering into the things we do in the way that we treat each other? Especially our COVID.
[00:27:36] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Some really powerful examples there. Thank you for that. So I think E w what I had not understood was that, you know, you've got this uncomfortable conversation guide, and then you were talking about the 16 modules, but those modules sound like they're really, they're proactive right there. They're modules about DEI.
[00:27:52] They're not. You know, utilized in, response to an event that's occurred. That's what I, because in my coaching practice, for instance a lot of the conversations I have with clients end up being around preparing for a difficult conversation, one where they need to speak their truth, or they need to. Break an impasse and, we do a lot of practice and thinking about how do you deliver this in a clear and kind way. And it's not just about the delivery. It's about the listening, of course, as you know, right. It's it's it's how do we create that safe dialogue so that the message is gets across, but there's more of a.
[00:28:32] Coherent a mutual understanding of what's happening and then what do we do do next from here? So, so that's where I had come in with that particular question. So you, you really got quite a robust suite of, of resources and support that you offer something you told me previously, when we were chatting before we hit record was about the.
[00:28:53] Advisory groups and open forums around DEI that you, that you run regularly. Could you tell us a little bit about what those are like and how the support your members.
[00:29:02] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Sure. So I do have a DNI advisory group. It right now, it has 17 bankers. It's it's not always the same size. But the, the idea behind this group is to have the most diverse group possible. So this is bank, asset size. This is geographic location. This is the identity factors of individuals who are in the group.
[00:29:23] It's also the different job positions they might have in their bank. So I do have a bank CEO but I also have somebody who's a loner.
[00:29:33] Right.
[00:29:33] And so it was just a range of, I have a chief marketing officer, you know, I have someone who does community development. I have someone who's an actual CDL for her bank, so it just, you know, try to get as much diversity as possible there.
[00:29:47] we were very excited that, you know, we do have a lot of racial diversity in that group. We were very excited. We, you know, we just had a native Hawaiian. That group, and we didn't have a Pacific Islander before. so you, we, we just wanted to make that group as diverse as possible.
[00:30:02] And that group is kind of a, a sounding board for me to, you know, it's like, well, I'm thinking about doing this. Is this a good idea? And then they come to me with, this is something that we as bankers. so there's a, there's, you know, this great mutuality in my relationship with that group, trying to make sure that we, as an association are developing the tools and resources that the banks need, but they also helped me determine if I'm going in the right direction or not.
[00:30:31] So that's one we also do the D and I open forum. That's a monthly call. And it's on zoom and we started this almost two years ago and it's, it's a great way for bankers to talk to each other in a peer-to-peer environment. You know, they can talk about their GE unite challenges. They talk about ideas.
[00:30:50] They have, they just exchange ideas about, well, this is what we're doing for Juneteenth or pride month, or, you know, this is the approach we're taking, but they also share resources. it's like, oh, well we used this, you know, or, or we had the idea to partner with this community organization, this type of learning that we were doing.
[00:31:12] Right. And so they, they share a lot of resources, you know, and one bank will come in and say, I'm having problems with supplier diversity. And another bank is like, oh, go here. and throw a link in the chat. that's what that the open forum is just, it's what it sounds like. It's an open forum.
[00:31:29] Anything can be the topic we never know. We never know, and it's usually one of those things. It starts out a little slow, and then I have to like cut the call off because we have hit our hour. Right. So it's, it's really great to hear all the bankers and, you know, everything that comes out of that.
[00:31:48] I would say the other thing, part of this is, ABA has over 200 committees councils and working groups. And one of our strategic initiatives was we put a D and I representative on to everyone. And so that's basically a banker who volunteered to be the D and I rep for that group. So all they do is they're putting a D and I lens on the work that that committee is already doing. And so really that just boils down to, you know, they're looking at the work that committee is doing, and they're saying, okay, does this credit card policy, does it serve low to middle income communities or does it leave them? Right. It's just asking that question or, you know, something along those lines and what we found there though, I have semi-annual calls with the DNI reps, you know, to kind of talk through any issues they're having or if they need some strategies to, have a, a civil conversation so that it doesn't become a fraught situation.
[00:32:52] So those, those two calls a year are some of my favorite calls because everybody is so thoughtful. But what we're finding is that, it's not only the D and I rep now asking these questions, the D and I rep might say something and then somebody else chimes in. Yeah. I don't think we should use that language that might be construed as offensive by this group.
[00:33:13] We should probably change that. Right. And so other people are joining in, we're not the D and I.
[00:33:19] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So the presence of having somebody there who's representing that lens and bringing it to the forefront is, is having that ripple effect that
[00:33:28] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Yes. Yeah, it's absolutely spreading outward. And then I would just say one other group, and this is, this is my newest endeavor. We just started it. We had an interest meeting on April 6th, but we're having, we're establishing a employee resource group for black Friday.
[00:33:45] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay.
[00:33:45] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: So this is ABA will host this group nationally.
[00:33:50] We provide the platform. We have some executive sponsors who are, you know, two of them are bank CEOs. One is a state banking association, CEO and basically it's a group for bankers and they decided they wanted to do a bi-monthly call. So our next call is June 10th. It's a platform for them to network.
[00:34:11] To provide mentorship to each other. to talk about professional development I'm working with, you know, from that first interest group call on April 6th, 20 of the bankers volunteered to form a leadership committee. And so I've met with them a couple of times and they are formulating their mission, purpose vision.
[00:34:32] And they're going to present that at the June 10th meeting. And then from there. Once they have that established, we're going to, we're going to work on their goals, what they, as a group want to accomplish, And so we're, we're going to build out their charter that way we're being very intentional.
[00:34:47] And we're, we're doing this incrementally because we want to make sure that we do the right thing, but the people on the call were just like, I cannot believe we're doing this, you know? And really it's, it's a group for. You know, a lot of our black bankers, especially in community banks, they may be one of a few or the only right, or the banks aren't large enough to have employee resource groups or maybe not large enough, or don't have a large enough population to have an employee resource group for black bankers or, you know, a multi-cultural.
[00:35:22] ERG. So ABA is going to provide that platform, you know, and the focus will be on the bankers who don't have these resources in their banks. But we do have people who have joined, some of our larger banks who do have access to those resources, but they're also bringing their ideas,
[00:35:42] you know, and saying, this is how our ERG handled.
[00:35:46] Could we do something similar? Do we need to change it? How do we, you know, how do we help? Right. So I'm, right now the membership of that group is around 150. I think it's only gonna get bigger that's after one call,
[00:36:00] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, that's a tremendous accomplishment. Congratulations on that endeavor. That's sounds like a really beautiful thing. You know, the theme that I'm noticing in, in your work and, and really in. what DEI and talent leaders can do to support DEI efforts is to provide opportunity for conversation and, and create a safe space.
[00:36:21] Right. So, you know, that seems to be a theme throughout the advisory group, the open forum, you know, the black banker ERG. I really think. You know, I'm hearing this trust, but like let's bring people together. Sure. We're setting context, but let's trust that these are adults and we're facilitating the conversation is not just about training on, why racism is bad or why bias is bad.
[00:36:45] it's, you know, let's, let's talk about what this actually looks like in our day to day and what we want. It's, it's, it's truly education at its heart. you know, I do these. The live talent talks. I just did one this morning before we came onto this call. I do the monthly now and it's with talent leaders and it's, it's not about me, speaking behind a podium and, and telling them.
[00:37:10] How to do something, you know, it's usually around talent management, that type of theme. It's really about posing questions and being facilitative and creating the space for them to think and network and converse and learn. So I, it really resonates with me what you're doing. I think it sounds Pretty pretty wonderful. So, you know, we're coming to the end of our time together. And I kinda wish we had more time to be honest cause there's so many, so many different things to think about as a kind of concluding question. What would you say is your biggest learning over all of that, this range of experience that you bring when it comes to making DEI?
[00:37:52] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Well, there's not just one thing. I'll say that there are two things The first thing, and this is the more, the more personal thing is as a D. And I practitioner, I had to learn where my own boundaries, where, you know, I had to learn how much of myself I could bring into a conversation emotionally or not.
[00:38:13] You know, and to make sure that. I take care of my own boundaries. You know, my husband, he, he jokes that, you know, he's like, well, the next time, you're negotiating a raise or something like that. You should ask for, a weekly visit with a psychologist just to be able to unload everything. Maybe I unload too much on him. you know, because it's, this can be very emotionally taxing.
[00:38:39] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah,
[00:38:40] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: You know, so I just, I had to learn where my own boundaries are, you know, and I do things like, I make sure that I schedule prep time for myself before I go into a facilitated workshop that may, bring up a lot of emotions for everybody, because I need to keep my emotions on even keel when I'm facilitating.
[00:38:56] Right. And I scheduled time for myself to decompress So I think those boundaries are important. So that's the personal answer. I would say the, the broader answer would be, it is the inclusion piece, it's the relationships. It does come down to people being able to talk to each other, in a way that's respectful of everyone's lived experience. And it's also for all of us to make sure that we're having contact with people who are different from us in some way, the race and gender piece, those are visual. And so we, those seem to be like the easy ones, you know, and you gotta have more than just your one black friend.
[00:39:40] Right. But you know, Age is also a visual, but we don't think about it as being an element of diversity, but also, you know, people living with disabilities or, you know, I call them the silent majority caregivers.
[00:39:54] Right. They're kind of this, many of us are caregivers in some capacity, but it's something we don't necessarily talk about at work.
[00:40:03] And so it's being able to, you know, make those connections and, Understand other people's lived experience and how it may be different from your own, but also understand what we all have in common. So it just, it really does come down to inclusion, that's the big thing.
[00:40:21] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yep. Inclusion first. I think that's the quote for this episode, Naomi. Beautiful. Well, thank you very, very much for spending time with me and with our listeners. I know people are really going to get a lot out of our conversation today.
[00:40:35] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--guest4366--naomi-mercer: Well, at least I hope so. And thank you so much for having me. I love it when I, can have a conversation. And as you said, it developed organically. I love being able to talk about what I do. Thank you so much.
[00:40:47] naomi-mercer_recording-1_2022-05-26--t02-19-54pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure.
