[00:00:00] The healthcare sector is complex it's especially. So during a global. How do you deal with the annual repetitive, mandatory trainings on top of development programs? How can you better leverage technology without losing the personal touch? We cover a lot of ground in this interview. And even if you're not in healthcare, you'll find lots of important food for thought.
[00:02:16] My guest is Christopher Garett, who is the C H R O at Cornwall community hospital in Southern Ontario. Christopher is a lifelong learner with a passion for process. He sees himself as an operational HR professional and leverages scorecards and embraces technology to provide excellent HR support. It was an absolute pleasure spending time with Christopher.
[00:02:36] And I know you'll enjoy this episode. Hello, and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today my guest is Christopher Garnet. Christopher is the chief human resources officer at Cornwall community hospital. And it's delightful to have him here with me today. Welcome to the show, Chris.
[00:02:57] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Thanks for having me, Lisa.
[00:02:58] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So you've got a really interesting background and you've dipped your toe in different areas of business.
[00:03:05] Could you walk us through your path to how you got where you are today?
[00:03:09] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Sure. So I, I think as a lot of individuals, I was one of. You know, students that really didn't know what I wanted to do when I, when I grew up at first, I thought I wanted to, to be accountant. I, I liked working with numbers, but as my career sort of evolved, I love to deal with people. I love motivating people.
[00:03:25] I've sort of been, you know, self-proclaimed sort of one of the cheerleaders. I love seeing people being promoted. And that's really taking me into to HR and human resources. I've been fortunate. I I've worked in private healthcare. I've worked in retail. You know, and even in private healthcare, I've been fortunate to even take on an operations role, which really, you know, gave me a lot more insight into, you know, having my own P and L really, what is it like to actually run?
[00:03:49] So not just be the, the guide and from the HR perspective, but what does it take to actually do it? I've been fortunate, as I said, than in hospital higher education. And now back to hospital in Cornwell community hospital, I'm a lifelong learner. Have my MBA project management, professional designation, and I not only have my lean six Sigma black belt, but I hugely believe and, and breathe about the lean methodology.
[00:04:13] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay, so there's a whole lot there. So mm-hmm, where to dig into. So I'm curious about this operations role that you did for a time, because I think you know, in my experience. 25 years in, in corporate, this was often a concern of, of internal clients, right. That, you know, HR doesn't really get the business.
[00:04:31] And so that was something that I worked really hard on and got experience operationally early on in my career, which helped me when I was serving in more of an HR or even talent role, you know, with a credibility and so on. Cuz you, They do want to know that you get what they're going through, what they're responsible for.
[00:04:48] So how did you come to move into that, that particular director position for a
[00:04:54] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah, it wasn't actually something I, I sought out. I mean, I, I had been in my role at the time for about, you know, four years and I felt. I had my relationships with, you know, the operations and, and everyone that I, that I worked with. I felt that there wasn't a lot of new things and, and I, I was really comfortable in my role and, and feeling I was performing well.
[00:05:13] And it actually all revolved around a, a mentor that I had a VP at the time who was an HR person by background as well, too, and really believed. And he. He really, we were sitting down one night actually at a, at a restaurant and we were going through succession planning. So we were just talking about using the nine box grid and there was a vacancy in pharmacy operations.
[00:05:32] And I said, yeah, so who who's gonna, you know, fill that role. And he looks at me, he's like, you know, you, you're gonna laugh at this, but you right. And, and I did laugh. Right. Because I, I didn't really think of myself. Right. And so we end up having a conversation, another, another two hours and he said, listen, Chris, why don't you, you meet with my boss, the, the senior VP of operations.
[00:05:52] And we start going through the process and you see if it's a right fit for you. And at the time, actually I was doing my, my MBA of focus on operations management and, and, and I was. Always taking a look and saying, how can I develop my career? How can I do more? So, you know, three months later, I, I was offered the role.
[00:06:09] I accepted the role. And I did that for a few years. Right. And it was great experience to really see, you know, what and appreciate what happens in operations. So, you know, when you have. You know, people not show up right. When you're short staffed, right. When you have to really maximize your EBIDA on your, your P and L as well.
[00:06:26] So really ownership things. And these are things that I really hadn't had experience with before in my career.
[00:06:31] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, so oh, so juicy. So this appreciation of what happens in operations. So, when I think about you doing that for several years as well, what was the thing that surprised you the most.
[00:06:42] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah. as an HR practitioner, prior to that, I think I always had the idea of okay. You know, maybe operators maybe had a lot of time there wasn't always the rush. I wouldn't feel like they're rush and say, I have to go, go, go.
[00:06:55] But I didn't quite appreciate that till I actually was in the role and really, you know, the pressures having to deal with, you know, customer complaints as well. Right? Those are things that, you know, I, I dealt with employee complaints, but they're even a little bit different than that customer complaint to really look at that customer service.
[00:07:09] And I feel like, you know, my, even one of my big takeaways, so it's a real focus on customer service, which I've tried to take with me throughout my career. Myself and my team, we, we serve everyone else in the hospital. Right. And part of our job is to really, how can we be quick and responding? How do we have, you know, certain standards as far as getting back to, to emails, getting back to people because there are urgent issues and you know, when you're an operator, Your priorities are a little bit different, right?
[00:07:38] Your priorities, you know, you have your list. I need this job filled. I need this right away. And in HR, we might have a whole other slew of priorities. So how do we have that communication right? To, to let the operator know that we hear you, right? Your priorities are important. Our priorities are important, but here's where you're in the queue.
[00:07:55] Or here are the things, or here are some expected timelines. So that way, you know, it's not in that void of, no communi.
[00:08:01] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. So, so it is interesting though, just to, to have worn those, those operations glasses, if you will, right. In sort of mid-career mid HR career. So the time pressures, the customer complaints I appreciate that you bring that, that customer service lens to what you do now, could you maybe elaborate a bit further on the time pressure?
[00:08:20] Like once you got in it and you're like, wow, it really is crazy.
[00:08:24] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah.
[00:08:25] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: how has that impacted you?
[00:08:26] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah, to give you an example. It was a, it was a whole world that sort of opened my eyes. So we had a, we, a data warehouse. So as an example, you know, at five 30 in the morning, my email was filled with reports. Right. And then, you know, by eight o'clock, you know, I had my, my boss or there was some emails saying, okay why do we miss that in these sales?
[00:08:43] Or where are there opportunities or where do we think? So it was really sort of looking at the numbers dissecting and, and, you know, building that story behind things as well. Right. And you know, in operations, it it's, there can be long hours, but it's really about balancing things as well. Right. So that, that also forced me.
[00:09:00] To even focus more on that work life balance and saying, okay, how can we look at things? And then even embracing the lean right. And, and questioning saying, okay, I'm doing operations. This is my first time doing it. I was sort of the eternal five year old. Well, why are we doing it this way? Why are we doing it this way?
[00:09:15] Cause I, I hadn't, I we're working with people that had been in operations for 15, 20 years and I didn't have that experience of leverage off. So I was really inquisitive and I found that. Gave me a better appreciation and even a more thorough understanding of, you know, why things are being done and how we can implement change.
[00:09:31] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So, yeah. So bringing that inquisitiveness, you know, what. This done this particular way. Very interesting. So you mentioned your background with lean six Sigma. I think you've got your black belt. So how did that play into your work during this operations gig, but also in the work you do today?
[00:09:49] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah. So I, I mean, my, my love of it came where an organization I was with. We we actually hired McKinzie consulting and I worked with a, a, a consulting, a few of the consultants, and we were going around really looking actually at, at pharmacies and how we can optimize pharmacies and, you know, whether it's technology, the number of steps and really sort of eliminate that whole perception of waste.
[00:10:10] Waste of time, waste of dollars you know, waste of extra steps and they did it so well. I, I, I was, I think forever a student from that point on, I was really sort of, you know, completely, you know, hitch to it from there. I then decided I wanted to complete my lean six Sigma back belt. And then even furthermore, when I went back into HR, there were so many things.
[00:10:31] So when I was used from an operations perspective, you know, going in and, and assessing, so looking at someone's workstation, right. You know, how close a book is or how close a pen is, how many steps do they have all their tools. Right. I was able to translate that in knowing HR saying. What are some of the operational things.
[00:10:48] So a as a recruiter, as an example, right? Do you have everything? So you're gonna be dealing with a potential candidate and they're gonna ask you questions and they might be questions you might not be prepared for such as what are some major attractions in Cornwall? Where are places of worship in Cornwall?
[00:11:02] So how can you have everything so that you're not always saying, Hey, I'll get back to you, but really how can we provide that in a package? And whether it's, you know, having extra screens open. Or packages, right? How can we do that? And then when I, when I think of HR, And when I, when I practice HR with my team, you know, I think there's a lot of things that are predictable, right.
[00:11:24] Such as recruitment. So in hospital recruitment, season. So right now, from February until about right now is our bread and butter. We hire a lot of new grads. So we know that, and we know it's been that way every year. It's been every, every year for 40 or 50 years and it'll probably continue to be that way.
[00:11:41] So how can, instead of, thinking of surprises or trying to reinvent the wheel. I, I always tell my team. It's like, it's like, we're in a river. Right. And we can be paddling up really, really hard thinking we're gonna go up river. Right. Or how can we look at the river and use the river and use it and say, we don't need to paddle, but just guide with it and go with that natural stream.
[00:11:59] So what are some of the things that we can fully embrace instead of, you know, not embracing as much?
[00:12:04] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. So it's, reminds me of, of the book and I haven't read the whole thing, but you know, the, the concept of essentialism and also, you know, the different, different concepts about ebb and flow. Like how do we work with what we've got versus struggling against that current or pushing uphill or up water?
[00:12:21] Really, really fascinating. So with, with six Sigma, I remember being Introduced to it. Wow. Many, many years ago, many, many moons as part of a, a project where I was working as a project lead. How do you translate it into your current role in, in healthcare? Like how does it show up? As the head of HR.
[00:12:38] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: one of the first things that, I typically look at is I look at processes, right? So I like to look at the recruitment process from, you know, when 70 applies and I. I like to actually have my team walk through the process. Right. So even though my team at one point has always applied and they've gone through the process, sometimes it's they're farther removed from it, or they sometimes forget what their process was.
[00:12:59] So how easy is it for someone to apply? Are we posting at the right websites? Right. And I always like to say Phish to where there's Phish. Right? So if we're we're posting on a website and you know, we're not getting a good return on investment. Where else can we look for that? So what's the experience look like?
[00:13:15] And then really I like to dissect things, right? So break it into the pieces. And when you break into the PR pieces and I love process mapping, my team knows that, but when you actually process map it out, it also makes it easy for new employees to start. know, at pet pee of mine is, we have a new employee start and somebody else on my team says, oh yeah, it's gonna take them a year to get onboarded.
[00:13:35] Right. I don't believe in that. And I believe it's really the ownership on us to say, okay, the person comes with skills and abilities. That's why they got the job. How can we actually help them translate our processes to get to know us? Right. And if it takes too long, chances are we've made it too complicated.
[00:13:52] How can we really get it down to bite size pieces? Right. So, you know, as an example, When I looked at, you know, at our hospital, when I first started I looked at the reference check process, right? So reference check process. Every organization typically goes through it, I did an audit and, you know, some areas were not doing thorough reference checks.
[00:14:11] Some were doing themselves, some were sending out a survey monkey link, but it was really inconsistent and the questions were. Different every single
[00:14:20] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh boy.
[00:14:20] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: And when you really take a look at the time that a leader spends on and our leaders, some of them hire a lot, but some of them don't hire a lot. So it's taken anywhere from a half hour to sometimes two weeks to do it.
[00:14:31] So I, I like to take a look saying, what can we automate? Right. So we actually signed up with some technology to do. Automatautomate a reference check system. We implement it right. Right off the bat. We went from about 55 days of a time to fill right down to 45 days time and fill. So something simple like that.
[00:14:47] Not only that, it also actually saved us money and saved us time. We have a consistent approach. So now you're comparing apples to apples rather than, you know, one person does a reference one way and then one does it another way.
[00:15:00] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and I almost, I mean, you tell me if I'm off, track here, but it, I almost see a connection to your focus on on customer service, right? That, understanding of how do I make my customers in this case, the other hiring managers that need consistent tools or technology so that they're not spinning wheels reinventing the wheel.
[00:15:16] it, it seems to, validate that.
[00:15:18] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: it does. And it allows them to frankly, do the great things that they have and their skills. I mean, we deal with a lot of clinical leaders, right. Their expertise and they weren't hired on how good they could do a reference check. Right. And that takes 'em away from the other great things that they, they should be focusing on as well, too.
[00:15:34] So we, we did that as I said right away, but it also going through the steps, I also like to evaluate, What can technology be used to enhance? And what are some of those things? We still need to have a personalized touch on as well, too. Right? So reference checks was something that I deemed, yeah.
[00:15:50] We can automate that, get a good experience, go through it, sort of check the box on that. But when it comes to employee onboarding, right. we wanted to make sure that, and my team does it virtually is they actually have a conversation with a person something interactive. Right. So they actually get to know people because, you know, when you make it too impersonal, The onboarding experience is also building that new employee's sort of database of connections right throughout the organization.
[00:16:15] And, and I believe we, we want more connections within organiz.
[00:16:19] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you and I were talking in, in the green room earlier about the fact that you know, with, candidates, that you've really been working with your team around ensuring that they're treating these folks with respect, that they're ready with the information that they need and so on.
[00:16:31] And, and for me, you know, I've always had this philosophy that. Any new candidate, whether you hire them or not, you want 'em to have a good experience because they are now out there able to speak to an experience with your brand, right. Their potential ambassador. So why make them angry or, you know, feel mistreated in someone instead consider like, even if they don't get the job let's let them know that in a way that preserves the respect, that's been built up over the process.
[00:16:59] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: hundred percent because I, and I, I hugely believe that too, cuz even though somebody might not have got the job, they might know someone else that might apply to a job that might be perfect. So it's, it's a, it's a small world and, and we're, we're in a small community, right? I mean, word of mouth reputation, is a huge currency that we wanna make sure that we maintain.
[00:17:16] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: That's a great point because actually I remember in my last role, so we, you know, did talent acquisition for a really massive organization in, for provinces. I think with 13,000 employees at the time, and we really struggled in some of the small centers finding clinical staff. So healthcare staff are so within retirement or long term care and, you know, part of the struggle, I remember my manager of talent acquisition talking about was just the same pool, kept appearing, right.
[00:17:43] For almost any world you'd, you'd see sort of the same names. How, what are your thoughts about that? Or tips and, and tricks.
[00:17:51] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah.
[00:17:51] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: You can't make the cool, any bigger.
[00:17:53] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah for, for that too. And we, we get that a lot too. Right. So we'll, you know, we'll post a, a nursing position in our, you know, emergency department and we'll get the same nurse apply for that as our medicine, as our CCU. So they'll apply for every nurse role and, you know, we might have 15 to 20 departments that are posting a role like that.
[00:18:10] So that's where again, I, I like to look at technology. So we're very fortunate that our applicant tracker system actually helps us with a lot of that. So there are flags on. How does a person apply it to any other roles? You know, what do things look like? And, and that way, you know, my team can really help leaders so that when they go to an interview you know, we're not, we're not interviewing the same person for four different roles across the organization.
[00:18:32] We're trying to streamline. Right. And also listen to the candidate too, because sometimes what I've noticed is. We'll have sometimes new grads or, you know, nurses or individuals that move to the area and they apply to the job because it's simply the job that we posted. It's not the job that they want.
[00:18:47] Right. Then they come in and they wanna go to another area. Is there a way that we can actually listen to candidates? And even though it's something might not be posted right now, help guide them of where things are. Right. How long will it take? We hire a lot of part-time employees, which is sort of the nature of he.
[00:19:03] That that's hard. It's hard to have someone, you know, relocate from Toronto, you know, five hours away to Cornwall for a part-time job. I, it really doesn't happen. So, you know, how long will it take to get it? Full-time how can we map out and even give them an idea of where they can go in their career with us?
[00:19:18] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: fascinating. Fascinating. So, so do you end up hiring people outside of Cornwell frequently or.
[00:19:26] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah, we, we definitely do. And, and that even plays into sort of our strategic plan. So I, you know, we, we just launched our five year strap plan just, just like about a month ago and really fortunate to have a, a leader. You know, my boss in, in, in the organization who. Really is a, is a HR enthusiast as well, too.
[00:19:45] And, and we're able to, listen to our community, listen to our stakeholders and actually have a, a five year strap plan that focus a lot on human health, resources, equity, diversity, and inclusion and not only that, but also the future of work. So when you talk about sort of our candidate pool, where do we draw from?
[00:20:01] We have position. That we do believe in, in hybrid work. Right. We do believe in remote work. Now being a hospital, that's not every position. Right. But what are some of the things that we can take from the pandemic and really embrace? And then what are other ones that we can take, take a look and saying, Hey, how can we, how can we get people here?
[00:20:18] So the other thing we try to focus on too, is spouse. So somebody does move here for a part-time job. they typically have a spouse or a partner and where are they gonna work? Right. So actually working with that individual and saying, we want you here, can we set up some employment opportunities?
[00:20:35] Here are some other job sites. Here are schools. If. If, you know, they have children, right? So really trying to take care of that whole marketing. And we are fortunate. One of the, the big benefits is, you know, Cornwall, we have a lower cost of living for housing than a lot of other markets. And our wages and hospital are very similar to other hospitals, even in larger centers.
[00:20:53] So we try to really embrace that and leverage that as a, as a hiring technique as well.
[00:20:58] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. So really, really knowing your, value proposition, if you will, for, for people that are looking at you as a potential employer. With the pandemic. I wanted to touch on that because here you are in healthcare, in a hospital, I think you joined last fall. So you weren't there throughout the, the two years of lockdown open up kind of thing.
[00:21:16] you know, looking at it from the outside, what tough couple of years, right? for this sector, tell us a little bit about what it was really like from your perspective.
[00:21:27] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah. So from my perspective, and, and, and I'm glad you put that in context, you know, I I've been there for, you know, wave five and wave six, which I think, you know, most people could argue were the worst waves that we've had. In addition to that, you know, someone new of the organization, I, I can, you know, be again the eternal five year old, ask a lot of questions and reach out some of the things I've noticed, and this is not unique, I think, just to our organization.
[00:21:49] But I think a lot of organiz. there's only so much time in a day. And when you throw in COVID in the pandemic, everything gravitates towards that resources time meetings. And it means other things have either been put in the back burn or some things that we normally have done really well.
[00:22:04] We skip steps. So as an example, you know, even the onboarding experience, you know, at our hospital, We got to a point where, we like to have a process of training, right? So someone does their corporate orientation. They do training on our systems. They do nursing orientation and, you know, because we're such, such a rush to get people in, we would, we would mix them up, which impacts as the employee experience getting back to basics on some of that stuff.
[00:22:28] The other thing too is as part of our recovery There's a, there's a lot of, there's a lot of staff that are burnt out from a, their job, but there are so many other things going on in everyone's lives. And these things have always been going on, but now they, they bubble up. So we very closely monitor, our statistics on our employee family assistance program.
[00:22:46] So we see on there too, that, you know, our number one issue throughout the pandemic, I is really personal, personal issues. Right. We've seen increase in divorces of staff, right. Loved ones get sick as well. So there's all this, this, these pieces going along with individuals. So as part of the recovery, you know, we believe it.
[00:23:05] It's not a silver bullet, right? It's actually many things and recovery is also not a defined, Hey, we're going to, we're gonna be at a recovery in a month or two months. This is probably gonna be years and being really resilient in. being persistent. So one of the things that we actually started about two months ago is actually getting all of our leaders trained in mental health, first aid proud to say, we've actually done three classes.
[00:23:27] We're continuing that on. And that allows our leaders armed with the tools, you know, of not only self-care so taking care of themselves, taking care of their peers, knowing the signs and taking care of their employees as well. Because I think what I've seen in a lot of organizations. someone gets, they think it's bad performance, but it's not necessarily bad performance.
[00:23:48] It's something somebody's going through in their lives. So how can we recognize believe in someone to, to help them through these times in their lives.
[00:23:56] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that really rings true because yesterday I was facilitating a leadership workshop and it was really principally around coaching skills for leaders and, one of the things we talked about. How we as leaders so often make assumptions right around, there's a gap in performance or somebody isn't sort of acting like themselves.
[00:24:12] And it's easy when you're put upon, you've got so much on your own plate to, to put it down to. You know, the judgemental statements like they're lazy, they're entitled, they don't care. and it's this idea of stepping back and saying, okay, whoops, let me step out of judgment into curiosity. What else might be behind this?
[00:24:30] And it could be, like you said, it could be a divorce. It could be a sick, loved one. It could be pure exhaustion. Right. Or, or something else that that needs to be addressed. So I think it's, it's wonderful. You're keeping an eye on that. So this mental health first aid training. I even like the title, I just, I just think it's brilliant.
[00:24:49] So I don't know if you made it up, but it's great. So can you tell us a little bit about what's covered, is it a workshop? how do you, how do you help people have these skills? I know it's one thing to say. We teach them to recognize the first signs, but how do you do that?
[00:25:03] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: So, first of all, when we did the course, I, I was actually one of the individuals in the first class that we had. And you know, our, our, our actually entire executive team is gonna be going through it as well, too. So it's something that we, you know, believe in as an organization, but it's a, it's a, it's two days.
[00:25:18] It's face to face it's, you know, no laptops, you know, no computers no phones, really sort of having that being in there. And I, the experience that I had when I took it is I thought it was a first of all really good going over a lot of tools, really highlighting, When people go through difficult times, what are some of the signs and what are some people sometimes gravitate towards?
[00:25:40] Right. So there's, you know, the realities out there is, you know, there are some people that, you know, are having tough times. They, they think of self harm, right? They think of substance abuse. So how can we, how can we look at things not being judged, but also you recognize that, you know, I'm not a counselor, so not to play the role as a counselor to play the role as a parent, but to really play the role as a support.
[00:26:02] Non-judgmental in, making the individual aware of what tools, what resources are there and helping them towards it. The session that I was in there was about 12 of us in the. I found it very powerful. A lot of the group actually shared personal experiences. It was, for me, it was almost a therapeutic experience as well, too, as, as we come out you know, hopefully of this, of this pandemic as well.
[00:26:23] And this is, again, this is just sort of one, you know, thing that we're looking at an army leaders. And in fact, we've had so much feedback. Is feedback we got from some of our leaders is, Hey, this would be great for frontline. So some of the things we're looking in the fall is, you know, having an optional for frontline employees to take too, because they're gonna, they're gonna be dealing direct with the public and they, they deal with their peers as well.
[00:26:43] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, that sounds like a, a really beautiful. Of of this work really, really important stuff. Especially because I, I just like, I, I almost wonder, you know, if associated with the burnout, there's a little bit of PTSD starting to, to show up like actual, you know, trauma in terms of what, what people have experienced almost in hindsight, looking back and just feeling the weight of it all of what was.
[00:27:05] What was lost, what people went through. So we've, we've started to touch a little bit on training. We've got a few minutes left. And so there's this piece around the mental health first aid? It sounds like you've. A very clear path around how you onboard people and, and get the core trainings done. And so on, I, again, I remember in my last role, you know, it was, always a battle, you know, how to handle the required trainings, the mandatory in healthcare that are required every single year under the myriad of regulations and government bodies.
[00:27:34] And so on, you know, hand washing every year for a 20 year employee gets old. Right. And, and then you're trying to. Often add on some of that developmental or growth training. Tell us a little bit about how you approach it. At Cornwall community hospital.
[00:27:49] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: that's a good question. Maybe what are those? I'll break it apart into two. So the first one is. Legislative training. And, and that's the stuff that, you know, all those have to do as new employees, specifically in healthcare. I do think we're fortunate. We, we have a, you know, what I believe is a really good learning management system that provides all, all of those keys.
[00:28:06] We give people time too. And some organizations will say, Hey, you need to do on your own time. We, we try to set people up. We give them the time to do it right away
[00:28:15] So they
[00:28:15] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: paid time.
[00:28:16] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Right.
[00:28:18] Exactly exactly. The, the second piece, you know, away from the legislative training is really what are, are the things that, you know, leaders potentially need is core competencies.
[00:28:27] You know, with the war and talent, I am very much, I believe a realist and, and I, I say to our whole teams is. If we have someone leave, chances are, we're not gonna get strong candidates that are even better. So we need to look in house. We need to look at developing our people, what can get them to stay and what are some of the things we're, you know, we've, we've Crescent over sort of the, the baby boomer retirements.
[00:28:50] We have a lot of new leaders. And with that, they're newly promoted. They were the top clinicians, but they don't necessarily have the financial acumen, right. Or the experience around that or HR core competencies. So we're trying to put together some in-house examples and also bring people in. You know, when I mentioned the mental health first aid, that was actually my first face to face meeting with our organization.
[00:29:13] And that happened a few months ago with, with more than three people. and it's so nice. Right? So nice to be back at that. So, so really taking a look at, where do we get our biggest return investment, having people back, having people doing classroom training and what are things that, you know, maybe might be better off as online training such as sometimes legislative training as well.
[00:29:33] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. And, and it's in it is interesting cuz something that, this little thought that kind Flew through my mind, kind of like, you know, behind an airplane as you were speaking, was this idea that with this, these new younger leaders, right. You know, something that's, that's been tough in healthcare for a long time, as you had a lot of people in their fifties, right.
[00:29:51] And, and older who were not tech savvy, they've spent their entire career 30 plus years on their feet, caring for others. And so the technology reaching them training wise HR wise through technology. I've seen that be a bit of a stumbling block. Right. And in this case, it sounds like you've got this new generation coming in that are likely more adoptive early adopters around that technology and, and moving to online.
[00:30:14] Have you experienced that or seen that in play?
[00:30:16] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah, we have. And, and, and I, I even look at our hospital. Very techn. Like we've embraced a lot of technology in a lot of different areas. But even to your point in reference to sort of, the baby boomers that, have retired there's been a lot of corporate and it's really open.
[00:30:31] I think our eyes, a lot to those unseen things that when somebody's been in their role for 20, 30 plus years, that they don't even remember that it's just, it's now just a habit. Right. And when they leave. it takes a long time to get someone up to that competency level. Right? So there could be the perception that, Hey, you know, our, our leaders are not as strong as the leaders in the past.
[00:30:52] I would disagree with that. They just, they haven't had enough runway. They haven't had enough experience and, and having those two dynamics of senior leaders. Right. And then moving to the other side, there's things that we have to do as an organization, I believe, to, to help them to foster them. Right. And not just say, Hey, your below average or your performance evaluation, there's lots of opportunities.
[00:31:11] What are some of the things that we can do to help, help grow?
[00:31:14] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So, how do you help that happen? Those conversations?
[00:31:17] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: one of the things, and, and ironically, you know, we, we did this recently is succession planning, right? And I find the conversation. So, you know, having conversation, we had a great conversation again, using the nine box grid just a simple grid uh, moment in time going through strengths opportunities from people's perspective.
[00:31:36] Acting like, sort of like a 360 allowing other people to weigh in on stuff and then focus on the development plans and really development plans. You know, I believe development plans can be easier complicated. It's not always something written out but it can be someone pursuing further education.
[00:31:51] What can we do as an organization to help? Is it giving them time to work on their studies? Is it financially contributing towards some of their studies? Right. And also asking the individual. What are they looking out for their career? Right? Because again, when you talk about the demographics and we had, we had before that group, that was very experienced.
[00:32:09] They were looking at retirement, right. They weren't looking at doing their master's or a PhD. Right. They're they're looking down the end. They're not even looking to move up. And now we have, you know, enthusiastic motivated leaders that wanna move up probably maybe sometimes even quicker than, than they want to.
[00:32:24] Right. How can we, how can we help that? How can we shift our mindset as an organization to really help them and listen to them as well? Right.
[00:32:32] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, cuz it's it's, it's your F you're trying to They have that motivation and excitement, they're at a different stage of life. And what they're missing though, is a lot of the, the organizational and knowledge capital, right? Like they just haven't been around that long. Right. So it's no one's fault, but how do you feel it's a new gap to fill almost.
[00:32:50] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Exactly.
[00:32:51] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, fascinating. Well, the, it, honestly, this has been such a, a wonderful conversation before we wrap it up. I do have one more question for you. when you look at your experience, so you've, done a little bit in, college, so more academia pharmaceutical industry retail and then you've got the healthcare piece. Working with the may organization out of all of those, you know, what's the common learning that every place you go, you sort of like, oh, there it is again. Yep. Good
[00:33:21] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Yeah, I, I think, and, and I, and to your point in my resume, I think even speaks to it a bit as well in my experience is, human resources, there are common foundations, regardless what industry, regardless, where, where you work. Right. And I find even sometimes. Having diverse experience like that?
[00:33:39] Not necessarily just in healthcare, not necessarily just in higher ed, not necessarily just in retail, brings a different lens. Right. And enables, you know, things, people to grow. Right. So that's, that's one of the big things I, I, I would say too, and I guess maybe the other one is. We all face the same challenges.
[00:33:56] Right? So regardless what industry, we're all looking for top talent, we're all looking for high performers. Right. And there's a lot of similar things that organizations are doing, but, I love to shamelessly steal best practices. Right. I don't have to be the one that invents it and I'm fine with that.
[00:34:10] But how can we learn from other organizations, which is why I like to, you know, keep my network. Talk to a lot of individuals and even, you know, as, as a pandemic starts to open up, go back to visiting other similar like organizations, what do they do well that we can learn from what do they maybe not do well that we can still learn from that we don't want to do and sharing
[00:34:29] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, well, and that's exactly it. Like, I think there's just so much to be learned from, Each other people actually doing the work versus just, you know, it doesn't have to all be about that formal education. Right. This is where, the talent talks that I'm doing in the, in the, the talent trust.
[00:34:44] It's very much around. Sharing , what's your experience? Where'd you fall flat on your face? Where did you soar high above the clouds and what was the biggest learning and then all of us kind of chewing on that. Like, what is, oh, okay. What does that mean? You know, for me, it would be with another client for the other individuals in, in the groups, it would be, you know, in their different organizations.
[00:35:04] So I think you've summed it up beautifully. We're all, we all have the same challenges ultimately, right. Just in different contexts. So.
[00:35:12] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: Maybe if, if I could add as well too. I think it's also like, for me, being honest with myself, even personally, as far as, you know, knowing what I'm good at, but also knowing what I'm not good at. Right. Because I think that's, that's a thing where. You know, I know then when to reach out. Right. And I think sometimes, you know, leaders and individuals have a hard time, whether it it's pride or they feel they should know it.
[00:35:35] I am not shy to reach out to anybody on any question. And I find that has really done well for me in my career. Really knowing where I'm, I'm not good at things. Right. And then leveraging on those experts to.
[00:35:47] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And not waiting too long to ask for that help. I know that's something, in my career, cuz I'm, in true tilt language, I'm an impact. So I like to go fast. So if I see something needs to happen and I'm not. noticing that I'm getting into kind of spin mode, go fast mode. I can miss the opportunity to consider how could I get some help here.
[00:36:06] Right. Take too much on. So it's, wonderful that you kind of got that piece working for you, right? I think we could, all, we could all learn from that. Well, thank you so much for your time today. it's been an absolute pleasure.
[00:36:18] christopher-garnett_recording-1_2022-06-09--t04-47-38pm--guest99497--chris-garnett: great. Thank you very much for your time, Lisa.
