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[00:01:24] Have you ever mused about starting your own business, or perhaps you have and then returned to the job world? The two worlds are different. Yes. And they share many similarities when it comes to what effective team leadership looks like. Today's guest shares some clear examples of language and approach you can use when setting clear expectations and having uncomfortable conversations.
[00:01:49] My guest is Sheila Cummins. Sheila is the founder and CEO of the Road to Seven, a training, coaching, and financing company that guides women entrepreneurs in building a profitable and fulfilling business. Sheila is a truly. High integrity leader and business owner. And full disclosure, she's also my own business coach.
[00:02:10] I am incredibly grateful to have her in my corner. Enjoy this conversation and thanks for listening. Hello and welcome to the show, Sheila Cummins.
[00:02:23] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Thank you for having me.
[00:02:25] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm just delighted. So you and I know each other, but my audience doesn't have the benefit of knowing you. So, would you perhaps share with us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and your background?
[00:02:36] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Absolutely. So my name is Sheila Cummins and I am the c e o and Founder of The Road To Seven. And the Road to Seven is a coaching, training, and financing platform for women entrepreneurs. And over the last decade I've been training and coaching women to. Build a profitable and scalable business, and I'm in the process now of launching the financing division of our company because as much as people, I see women being knowledgeable and coachable and taking all the strategic action that they need in order to grow successful business, there does come a time where they literally simply need access to capital.
[00:03:16] And the companies that we support are not big enough to get the attention. Banks or financial, traditional financial institutions, and they're also not big enough to take on equity investors. And what they just need is a lump sum of cash that they can pay back in monthly installments so they can manage their cash flow and make those strategic investments in their growth. And in terms of my background, it has nothing to do with what I'm doing now. You , I'm you know, I have a university degree in kinesiology. I do nothing with the human body.
[00:03:48] And then I was a teacher for 13 years in the classroom and I had lost my passion for teaching. . I just, I don't feel that a teacher who's lost her Passion has any business being in the classroom. So after my second child was born, I stepped out and have never looked back.
[00:04:04] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Beautiful. And I love that you and I share the, the teacher background, right? , I only had two, two years in
[00:04:10] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: I don't have a statistic to back it up, but I have heard that teachers make the best entrepreneurs and leaders because they are so accustomed to wearing so many different hats simultaneously, that it's a real, and they're also in the people business , you know? And, and I know that that's a focus of what we're talking about is, is how leadership and, and talent management and, you know, entrepreneurial.
[00:04:35] endeavors are all based in people, and I think that's why teachers are so powerful as
[00:04:41] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So, so, so fascinating because you know, I, I, I'm not sure if I ever shared this with you, but when I left teaching, it actually took me, I'd say four years to finish grieving and to feel like I had given up that, you know, that I had somehow Defaulted, you know, out of it. I, I did it for two years and what, you know, I'd always wanted to be a teacher.
[00:05:00] Always thought I would, you know, my family thought I would. I came from a long line of teachers, but I remember having this confusion in my head of, who's gonna want me? I trained as a teacher, a French teacher nonetheless. And so not seeing myself for the myriad of skills and hats that I wore. So I appreciate what you're saying because for sure indeed, when I, when I left and I, I moved into, I fell kind of into corporate.
[00:05:22] Wow. The, the initiative, you know, being very used to managing your own time and you know, nurturing relationships with people really came into play. So it's, it's very, very true what you're, what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't see it initially. Okay. Well, so, so you started to tell us a little bit about you know, the microlending side of your business cuz you also have the, the coaching you coach entrepreneurs such as myself.
[00:05:46] So the microlending is something you're very passionate about and you recently did Ted talk and I was hoping you could let us sink behind the curtains about what happened there,
[00:05:56] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah, . Well, that was right. Like why? I think I, I asked myself that every single day after I got approved and, and asked to do the Ted Talk. You know, Part of the piece of running this financing company is that I am absolutely going in and disrupting the status quo. There are other lending companies out there.
[00:06:17] There are not lending companies like the Road to Seven Capital that I'm building, and I was thinking about what is the best way and the most effective way for me to establish. My stance on the inequity when it comes to access to capital for women and what is the largest, most credible forum I can find and.
[00:06:43] The answer was the TED stage, and that is literally why I chose to do a TED Talk as opposed to standing up at a conference or doing a podcast episode about it. I needed to anchor this piece in a very significant place that got attention. and it has worked . Now, if you wanna ask me about the experience of being on the TED stage, that was challenging on every single level.
[00:07:09] I speak all the time. I am continually running workshops. I speak at conferences, I talk to large groups, small groups entrepreneurs, corporates. I talk everywhere about. Elements of of business, and this pushed my comfort zone beyond anything I've ever experienced before because it's a style of speaking that is not natural.
[00:07:32] I am a teacher by training and at the heart of everything I do, I'm sharing curriculum. . A TED stage is not about sharing curriculum. It's about sharing an idea, sharing story blended with facts, blended with calls to action for the audience to take away. And you're not supposed to have any visual aids.
[00:07:52] You're supposed to just speak off the cuff. It can't be more than a certain amount of time. In my case, it was 18 minutes and. . I was talking about something that I really feel incredibly passionate about and as someone who has, one of the stories I've had to overcome is that I've been overlooked and underestimated my whole life.
[00:08:14] This was me saying, you are not overlooking me and I will not be underestimated. I am absolutely going on a limb here and pulling, putting everything out on that stage because I so truly believe in. The power of women entrepreneurs and their impact, positive impact on society and on the economy, and it's an inequity that I've seen play out over the last decade of doing this work of access to capital.
[00:08:41] So it just pushed every single comfort zone that I had.
[00:08:46] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: like it, but it's, it is interesting though because in spite of that discomfort, you were able to overcome it because the, the, the value of of showing up for yourself and for us. Others outweigh that discomfort is sort of the take I'm getting
[00:09:01] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: yes. It was more important for me that I did it and that I took the stand and that I, I made that mark. Than it was for me to hide because I was uncomfortable. It, I did go underground for about a month afterwards and, and I gotta be honest, it wasn't my best talk by any stretch. I would love the opportunity to redo it and have it be tighter and cleaner and more like me and more how I speak.
[00:09:29] But. You know, at the end of the day, I, I got my message out there, and that is, has been a huge credibility piece for me as I talk to lenders, as I establish myself in this field, as I build out this, this passion that I've had sitting for years.
[00:09:47] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. Really such, such an interesting story and I appreciate you sharing that and, and that it was such a vulnerable experience for you because when I think about our, the audience that are listening today to this interview, they tend to be, I probably have a few entrepreneur friends in there that are listening along, but a lot of folks, Are working in corporate and they are talent, hr, OD leaders, and you know, what I run into, a lot of them will present and regularly need to present at work to have a voice.
[00:10:14] What I do find though, is many, and this was myself included back when I was in that chair, weren't really clear on their own thought leader. right? And often we're so busy, they've got so much on the go that it's, it's so hard to even think of doing one more thing. Case in point, when I invite people to come on the show, right?
[00:10:33] I'm intrigued by, you know, their profile. I've met them somewhere, you know, through LinkedIn, and a lot of people are like, well, I'm not sure if I have time, and I'm not sure if I have enough to say that's important enough. Like your other guests, there's this real imposter syndrome thing that. And so, you know, I always explain to them that part of the reason I, I have this podcast is to provide that platform for people to step into their thought leadership.
[00:11:01] Right? What is it that you believe that makes you great? What is it you bring to the table? And also by sharing your story and your beliefs, you're giving back to your community, right? Which is also a powerful thing, which I think for many it seems to be, that seems to be the point that helps people overcome the fear and the discomfort.
[00:11:19] Right. And the time constraints, the story that they can't make time.
[00:11:22] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: I think that we are all in the people business, and I think that whether you're an entrepreneur or you're working in corporate, whether you're a leader or a worker, be. We are all in the people business and at part of our job description needs to be to see the people that are around us and make those with whom we're in contact directly and indirectly to be the best version of themselves.
[00:11:50] And when somebody feels like they don't have a voice or they don't have something that either is allowed to be shared or can be shared safely, then that's really squashing that the people side of that business and. , I know how powerful it is to have a very entrepreneurial aspect to a team where team members are coming with ideas, with innovation, with thought leadership themselves.
[00:12:20] And I think part of our job as a leader, whether as an entrepreneur with your team or as a talent manager with your team, or when you're working within a corporate environment, is to bring out. The best version of the people that are around you, and part of that is creating that safe space to allow people to speak up, to speak out, and to share ideas.
[00:12:41] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: yes. Bring out the best version of the people around you. Completely. I, so, you know, when you think about the teams that you see, so you work with a lot of entrepreneurs,
[00:12:50] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: do.
[00:12:51] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Who have, who have varying sizes of teams, and, and you've worked with companies as well and still do what would you say. Makes a high functioning team so beyond there's this, bring out the best in people, but what's at play with the larger group, not just what the leader is doing.
[00:13:07] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah. Well, so let me just talk about dysfunction first so that we can lead into function. You know, one of the things I think that. Stops this kind of environment from happening is. . And when a leader is putting their ego on the line as being responsible for the results, then we have a problem. And so being able to shift to this understanding that A, as a collective, it is your job to achieve a result.
[00:13:38] Or various results through your work, and then we can start seeing who are the key players and what role does each person take in getting to that result. All of a sudden, it's not about that one leader in the ego, it is about the collective as a whole. And the leader's job is to be seeing motivating, listening, hearing, championing, supporting each individual contribution.
[00:14:08] to the whole in its entirety. And making that shift, I think is where the functionality comes from in a team. That's where people feel loyal because they are heard. They feel like they're contributing to the growth. They understand their role in getting the results. And when people feel really good about being a part of something, they wanna stay.
[00:14:31] And if people don't feel good, you're gonna have a high turnover and you're gonna keep going back and starting at square one. And it's really hard to build a high performing team when you've got such massive turnover.
[00:14:43] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: It's true, it's true. And what you're saying makes me think back to your, your earlier comment around you know, Really for leaders, it's about bringing out the best version of the people around you. Because when we do that and everybody's, you know, very clear on roles and responsibilities, they feel like they can be themselves and, and.
[00:15:02] Play to their strengths. Literally, it lifts everybody up. You know, I think about in, in you know, I've run really huge teams. I've had people of, you know, 60 across the country, you know, in my, in the overall downstream and so on. I mean, that that isn't the largest team ever, but it's pretty substantial.
[00:15:17] And I've had smaller ones as well. And as an entrepreneur, you know, initially it was just me and I remember sort of hanging onto everything, feeling overwhelmed, like, oh my God, now it's all me. And not. Willing to kind of part with any, any of my hard-earned revenue yet to get some help. And gradually I've changed that and what, what it's allowed me to do by having virtual assistant, a podcast producer, other people I work with, it allows me to be the best version of myself while they're also playing to their, their particular strengths and interests.
[00:15:47] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah. And that letting go, We have to deal with the ego of the person. So in my case, I deal with entrepreneurial women who don't wanna let go and listen. We're all con control enthusiasts in our own way. We all, you know, like to have our hand in the.
[00:16:05] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: freak.
[00:16:05] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah, right. , like we all wanna have our hand in every pile because this is our company, and at the end of the day, we are responsible for the results.
[00:16:15] But if somebody's not performing the role that they play in getting the result, our job is the leader is to find out why and then to fix. And it doesn't always mean that we have to fire the person or kick them off our team or do whatever. It just means we have an issue. And it's probably related to capacity, competency, or communication on both sides.
[00:16:41] So the leader and on the team member. And so, you know, does the leader have the capacity? To be able to leading properly. Do they have enough time? Do they, they have enough bandwidth to support when needed? If someone asks for feedback, do, are they able to provide that? Are they communicating clearly what it is that's needed, what the expectations are, what the results are, and do they have the co, the competency to be leading this?
[00:17:09] Team, and if not, we need to put somebody in the role who understands the results that are necessary. And then on the flip side, the team member, do they have the capacity to do the work that is required of them? Have they clearly communicated any questions they have and fully understood what the directive was?
[00:17:29] And do they have the, the competency to deliver or have they oversold? And when you can bring it down to one of those three Cs of why your team is not functioning smoothly, all of the answers are sitting in front of you.
[00:17:42] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So where does it all go wrong? I have my own theories. You know, I think everybody, both, both sides of the coin always, you know, bring the best of intentions and. You know what, what gets us into trouble is when our intention does not align with our impact. So we're not thinking about how we wanna show up, how we want others to experience us, or what our role or accountability is in any given situation.
[00:18:05] So from your perspective, what it, what does cause, so that's my view on breakdown. In, in communication or performance, you know, expectations not, not being met. What do you.
[00:18:18] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: I think that we often lean on the subjective as opposed to the objective. One of the things I encourage and really support my women and their businesses to do is to really create a. Data-driven business, and you can do this if you're an in corporate environment or entrepreneurial environment. It, it spans both.
[00:18:41] If we're focused on a results-oriented work environment, there is data to show whether we have achieved that result or not. And it all comes down to how we measure the result, a quantifiable measure of the result. And when we can assign a. And add in the quantifiable measure of whether that person is achieving the role.
[00:19:03] It removes all subjectivity from the conversation. So if I were to hire someone to do social media for me and the quantifiable is they are increasing the number of followers by X percent every month, the conversation then becomes really simple. Have. increase the followers by x percent a month or have they not?
[00:19:25] It's a yes no answer. And so my feedback, my leadership, my communication then is not rooted in ego. It's not subjective. There's no emotion behind it. It's literally being driven by the data. This is what you are hired to do. This is what's happening or not happening. What do we need to fix? What do we need to do different?
[00:19:46] What can we do better? How can I support you to get the results that you've been hired for? That is leadership. But when we start getting into the whole, oh, well, I don't really wanna give them feedback. They've had a really terrible day. They're kids sick. They're, you know, this is happening in their life, you know?
[00:20:05] There's pending restructuring about to have, you know, when we start getting into the emotion and the, the ego side of it, like it just gets really messy. And so if, when we can put data behind the roles and responsibilities of everybody in our team, it's a really simple conversation.
[00:20:21] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes it is. And yet so many people shy away from it. I see. One of the biggest, the biggest mistakes that leaders make in general, not just talent leaders, but any kind of leader is putting their head in the sand a little bit. Right. And, and being worried about rough, you know, Ruffling feathers or, or damaging the relationship hurting people.
[00:20:39] But often it's just cuz they're, they're uncomfortable so they're gonna avoid that conversation. So, so actually I see it as a very graceful thing to actually have the conversation to decide that the right thing to do is to be neutral about the feedback using that data. And to be clear, because to be clear, is to be kind, you know, it, it goes back to that, that Brene Brown True
[00:21:00] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yay. Benet Brown
[00:21:02] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And kind because
[00:21:04] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: But yeah,
[00:21:04] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: unkind
[00:21:05] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: I, I think that it's also important to notice how we go to great lengths to ensure that we don't feel discomfort. There are so many conversations that so many of us need to have where we're tolerating something in our life, tolerating something at work, tolerating results from someone else, and we don't wanna have the conversation cuz it feels uncomfortable.
[00:21:27] But at the end of the day, we can all do hard things and difficult conversations do not need to end up as a yelling match or being dismissive or ending being an ugly situation. They can totally be done constructively and as you said, As long as it's rooted in very objective data, this is what we need to happen.
[00:21:47] It's not happening. How can I support you? Then all of a sudden, the discomfort diminishes. But you know, we can do hard things. We can have uncomfortable conversations, and there are scientifically proven ways of having these conversations and providing this feedback, and you. We just can only be focused on what our job and our role is in that moment.
[00:22:11] You know, our job is to present the message clearly. Our job is to present it positively. Our job is to you know, show up and, and lead and lean on the data. Their reaction is their reaction, and that's not our problem. We need them as another adult to deal with their reaction. We just gotta focus on Arlene and our.
[00:22:33] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Which, yes. See, when I work with people, either as a coach or, or as a facilitator around the difficult conversation that, you know, that create, creates so much avoidance and discomfort, it's, it's, you know, be clear with somebody, but. Focus on, you know, you're not trying to make somebody feel bad when you're giving some constructive criticism.
[00:22:54] You want them to get it. You want to prepare them to hear what you have to say to be able to receive the feedback. So that's how, that's what needs to guide how you provide the feedback, right? So we can say, do tough things, have tough conversations. And there's a finesse, there's a A sense of grace that needs to come with it in terms of how we kind of set it up, how we position it.
[00:23:19] This is gonna be a tough conversation. I'm just putting that out there. This is not the end of the world. We're gonna work through this so I have some feedback. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's making sure upfront that somebody knows you know, this isn't about yeah. The end of the world kind of thing.
[00:23:35] Like this, this is a moment in time that is fixable.
[00:23:38] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Absolutely. And you know, it all comes back to what we, we talked about at the beginning of the episode, which is we are all in the people business.
[00:23:45] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes.
[00:23:46] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: And we have that choice in the moment to uplift. And uplift is not always to blow smoke when it's not deserved. . In fact, that's the opposite. That's doing them a disservice.
[00:23:58] you know, uplifting can sometimes be, and I've, I've had to, there's one day I had to help a woman fire seven people from her company and. You know, my parting words on that day were sometimes you've gotta kick the bird out of the nest so that it can find its wings. And all se, she handled those conversations beautifully.
[00:24:18] And listen, that doesn't mean there was no emotion attached. I mean, I even needed to take a little time out cuz I knew the impact of what our coaching conversation was gonna have on seven people's lives. You know, we practiced, we role played. We talked about the situation. In each individual case, we looked at the data, we gave feedback, we gave next steps.
[00:24:38] Here's the call to action. Here's how I can support you as you find something else. And she handled the conversations beautifully. She did have to take some time to sort of recoup after having those convos,
[00:24:49] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh.
[00:24:50] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: You know, we can do these hard things and we can deal with the emotions that come with it, and we're not doing anybody a favor by keeping them on our team when they're underperforming.
[00:24:59] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, that's just it, right? And I think sometimes we do tolerate poor performance because we're worried about going there,
[00:25:06] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah,
[00:25:07] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: right? And, and yet, as you say, you know, If it's not a fit, generally they, they know, right? So it's, it's giving, it's opening a new door for them and for you and for the team ultimately.
[00:25:18] But anyways, we could spend a whole lot of time going down that road talking about teams and performance and how to manage that. The other piece I wanna make sure we get to though is around you, you mentioned something to me in the green room when we were talking, and it goes back to the Microlending platform and, and, and again that, that underlying piece of being in the people business no matter where you work or what you're working on.
[00:25:41] You mentioned there's something that you call banking dysfunctionality
[00:25:44] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Yeah.
[00:25:46] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: around the lending process, and I thought it would be really interesting to, to give a little bit of insight into what you mean by that and what you see as the.
[00:25:55] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Abs. Absolutely. So, and just to be clear, I think that when we shift to models that are completely automated, this is one of the risks that happen larger the organization. Larger the, the possibility that this is gonna happen. One of the things that we are working tirelessly on is to rewrite the application and approval process for a loan.
[00:26:18] Banks depend on traditional data in order to approve or disprove a loan, and the data doesn't always tell the full. . And so one of the things that we're building is having traditional data. Of course we're gonna do credit checks, of course. We're gonna look at business credit, of course. We're gonna look at the amount of loan to debt, the debt to income ratio.
[00:26:40] Of course, we're gonna look at that traditional data because that gives us an insight into what's happening. But what that doesn't do is tell us why that's happen. And so I, you know, I think about a woman who's gonna be one of our first loans that we put out next month, and she's a single mom. She has against all odds built and grown this business to where it is today.
[00:27:04] She needs an infusion of $15,000 so that she can offset the cost of designing and developing a website that's SEO friendly so that people can find her and she can publish her book. This is not a woman who, on paper, according to the traditional data, looks great because she's been bootstrapping this business while being the sole provider for her family.
[00:27:28] So her credit rating does not look terrific. A traditional bank says, yeah, no way. Your credit rating is X, Y, Z. We're not willing to do it. , but where we differ and what we're rewriting is seeing the human be beside behind the numbers. Why is that a situation? Ah, she's a single mom. She's the sole provider in her family.
[00:27:50] She has built this business to be earning multiple six figures every year. She's able to pay every single one of her bills. She has financed the whole thing using personal credit, which is why her personal credit rating is so low. She is working to build it up. It has increased month over month as she gets on her feet.
[00:28:10] So though on paper. , she is not a good loan, according to us. She's exactly who we wanna lend to. We know that she's gonna be fully compliant with her loan. She's gonna, she's, she will not default, of course, by, you know, we can't look in our, our magic ball and predict everything. But there, she's just not going to, the numbers show that she can support this level of a loan.
[00:28:35] We're gonna come up with repayment terms that work for her and work for. and we're doing it at an interest rate that's gonna match what a bank or the B D C would give her if they were to take the time to get to see her as a person. And so, you know, when I talk about banking dysfunction, I'm just talking about the fact that they have dehumanized the banking loan and application process, and they did it because they needed to.
[00:29:01] but at the same time, it leaves a hole, a big hole in our landscape, and it creates such an inequity when it comes to access to capital. Women receive just 4% of all lending capital. Women receive 16% of business loans. It's just, it, it, and it's because light, this woman who we're gonna be lending to that story is not.
[00:29:25] I started my first business on my, my credit card, and it took me less than three seconds to pay for what I needed, and it took me over seven years to pay it off at 18 to 20% interest, and that's criminal. It's not necessary anymore.
[00:29:42] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yeah. Well it's very inspiring what, what you're doing and you know, and, and I think it's interesting cuz when you talk. know, on the one hand when we talk about looking at, you know, having performance conversations, really focusing on data and, and remembering that it's all about the people and we wanna help people find them, you know, be their best selves.
[00:30:00] It's, it's kind of that same theme comes into play here, right? In terms of how we wanna look at people and assess loan application worthiness. Right? You know, it is the data. You are gonna look at the credit reports, of course. , you are also looking at the person and the track record and and so on. So, you know, when you think about corporate leaders and, and talent management leaders, what do you see as, as kind of the most important takeaway for them when you think about, you know, we've touched on entrepreneurship or on, you know, I always hear about entrepreneurial spirit the people side plus the data side.
[00:30:37] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: You know, I think the biggest connection between all of the pieces for corporate leaders is just a little bit of a, a reality and gut check that they too are in the people business and the result, the results that they're wearing as they're. Pride and joy in their success markers for themselves are actually the result of a cumulative effort of everybody around them.
[00:30:59] And their job is to understand the people that are on their team, learn how to communicate with each individual person. And it really is that shift away from the top down leader. You know, the picture of, of the guy with the cigar sitting behind his desk yelling at, you know, whoever happens to come in his office.
[00:31:17] That's such a dated thing and. You know, I, I think we could probably have a whole other podcast episode about feminine leadership, but it is starting to be proven. The data's starting to show that when people employ feminine leadership tactics, and that's not to say woman leadership tactics, that is feminine energetics, which I know is probably the people in corporate are going, oh, I roll here.
[00:31:41] She goes, but you know, literally it's. Nurturing and seeing the people around you and then helping them become the best version of themselves. And we all have a blend of masculine and feminine in us. And when you're only focused on process and deliverables and you know, rah rah, that is a very masculine part of our leadership.
[00:32:02] It has to be there as well. The tasks and the results have to be there, and we can blend it with the people side, which is the feminine leadership. That is where the magic is sitting. I truly believe it. I've seen it time and time.
[00:32:14] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Hmm. I, I couldn't agree more. I think it's, it's not a question of, of one style or the other. It's both,
[00:32:20] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: It is,
[00:32:20] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: how do we create like a unique blend for each, each leader?
[00:32:23] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: and it's not about a man or a woman. It's about the individual leader tapping into their different styles and ways of motivating and seeing their team and uplifting them based on who their team is and what they need.
[00:32:36] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Which, you know, based on that description is, is very much not ego driven, right? It's, it's about being solution focused and, and people focused at the same time. Beautiful. Well, we have. Already blowing through a whole 30 minutes,
[00:32:51] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: We can keep going. Lisa. I love
[00:32:53] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: can keep going, we can just keep exploring all sorts of areas here.
[00:32:56] But I wanna thank you so much. As we wrap up, I have one more question for you and just wondering, you know, when you think about your career, you've had a long career as an entrepreneur. Now you're previously a teacher, you're now, you know, always reinventing and, and taking on new, new challenges, which I, I love to watch what's.
[00:33:14] Biggest learning that kind of has supported you throughout your whole career journey?
[00:33:20] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: I'm not sure that it has supported me throughout my whole career journey, but I can say as I sit here now and I help my kids who are just about to get onto their career journey, they're a couple years away.
[00:33:33] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:33:34] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: it's a having the intention and moving ahead with intention, not just falling into things. you know, I just have sort of fallen into everything up until, you know, 10 years ago when I decided to go out on my own and leave teaching, I'd never really been intentional about the kind of life that I wanted.
[00:33:54] What was important to me, what my values were, what lifestyle did I desire. That was never a part of my thinking. And I do wish it was cuz I probably would've taken a different career path right from high school forward. But the other thing. and, and again, it's gonna sound so woowoo and so light, but it's, it's an inner belief.
[00:34:14] And there are so many things I didn't do because I didn't think I was smart enough, or I didn't think I was good enough, or I didn't feel like I belonged. And if I could have just attacked those gremlins in that little inner story that I had years ago. , I probably would be in a different place, but at the same time, I'm so grateful for the journey that I've had because it's allowing me to be in this place right now.
[00:34:40] And I am in the people business so I can help others who are, who I see experiencing what I have now learned and can see. So it's a bit of a, a double-edged sword, you know, but it's you know, my, my son is in grade 10 and, you know, I just. Call with his guidance counselor.
[00:34:58] And I was like, at what point do you start saying, you know, where do you wanna be going with your academic career? Where, you know, and then starting to work towards it. Cuz I just feel like he's a little bit lost in just going through the motions at this point. And she's like, it's coming, it's coming. But I of course want it to happen yesterday.
[00:35:14] So, cuz the ambiguity and, and the, the race to mediocrity is driving me crazy. But you know, he'll land. And I now have the tools to support him that I necessarily did not have when I was his age or that I had available to me. And for that, I'm so truly grateful.
[00:35:31] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: You, you know, I relate so much to what you're saying. My son's in grade at 11 and so yeah, we're, we're having a lot of conversations about the career path and, and so on. But also it's that piece about, you know, the gremlins that you mentioned. I mean, I wish I had known, cuz I think I went kind of walk through life for, for quite a while.
[00:35:46] There're thinking I was the only person, you know, that had this mean girl inside. you know, I wasn't even conscious of her, of that voice most of the time. And it, and I think it. uh, Shape your decisions and, and how you fall into things or, you know, the path you take. So yeah, again, I appreciate you sharing that.
[00:36:02] It, it got you where you are today, so no regrets. And isn't it interesting if we can help our kids learn to kind of notice those, those gremlins and manage them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So maybe, maybe, maybe they're gonna take just as many twists and turns as we, we do, or, or fewer, I don't know.
[00:36:20] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: We'll see. I have a track record of making a shift every 10 years
[00:36:23] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes. There you go. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show's. Been an absolute pleasure as always when I see you.
[00:36:31] shelagh-cummins_recording-1_2022-11-01--t02-38-43pm--guest972572--shelagh-cummins-: Well, thank you for having me.
