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[00:01:25] Whether you use search firms in your organization or are interested in working with one for your own career, this episode is a must Listen. Today's war for talent is real. It's critical to be strategic about your talent acquisition practices and not settle for status quo. My guest today is Magdalena Dule.
[00:01:47] Laci. Magdalena has spent her career establishing connections and building relationships with companies and talent across North America. Her relationship based approach has helped her build trusted partnerships with the people she works with. She's a genuine passion for finding exceptional talent and matching them with great organizations.
[00:02:07] And this talent led her to pursue her dream of funding lead search group in 2000 and. Magdalena is one of my most valued friends. She actually placed me as a candidate 20 years ago, and I was a client a little more recently. We've remained in touch relishing our semi-annual ketchup lunches where we always run out of time.
[00:02:30] Of course. I hope you love this episode as much as I do.
[00:02:34] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. Today I'm joined by Magdalena Dule Lapi, and I'm delighted to have you on the show today, Magdalena.
[00:02:47] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very grateful to be here.
[00:02:51] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure. So first off, let's share with the, our listeners, who you are and a little bit about your journey.
[00:02:58] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Well, I am a, a wife, a mother, and a business owner and a dog lover.
[00:03:04] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Lover meet you
[00:03:05] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yes, . Yeah, so I'm a recruiter. My business is lead search group and I started it almost eight years ago now
[00:03:12] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: That is mind blowing to me.
[00:03:14] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: yeah, on a leap of faith. But it's been amazing.
[00:03:16] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And so tell us a little bit about how you got there. I mean, to the point to ha you own your own company. What was kind of the path you took?
[00:03:25] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: So I fell into it. I finished university and didn't know what I was gonna do, and I started as a receptionist at an agency and fell in love with recruitment. And then from there I worked at a, at a boutique firm for about nine years in, in staffing, which I loved. and then I took a leave on life for, I had some life change and I went back to work for a year for a firm.
[00:03:51] And then in 20 15, 20 15, I started lead search group. April 22nd or 23rd.
[00:03:59] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Wow. Well, and full disclosure for the audience, you and I go way, way back. We actually go back a full 20 years
[00:04:06] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Lisa. Don't say that.
[00:04:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: me. Well, 20 years. Hey, we've, you know, we've been friends ever since, but you placed me back in 20 2002 at Franklin Templeton.
[00:04:17] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Isn't that
[00:04:17] crazy?
[00:04:18] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Just mind blowing to me. And here you've been in business for eight years.
[00:04:23] I mean, how time flies. It's, it's crazy. And you know, also I'd like to share with listeners too, that you were, you were a real source of inspiration for me going out on your own, cuz I remember you and I having some conversations when I was starting to think about it when I was still in, in my corporate role.
[00:04:38] So yeah, it's interesting how.
[00:04:41] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I remember having lunch with you and you telling me about the name of your business and how it just felt so right. And I'm so
[00:04:46] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it had popped into my head on the drive over to meet with you and you were like, you've gotta do it, you've gotta do it. And so I incorporated that the next day with that name. Yeah. Green Apple Consulting. So funny. So the other thing that's kind of interesting is, is I always, you say you fell into it and you ended up working as a receptionist what was your degree in?
[00:05:05] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: it was in business, social organization, and human relations, interestingly enough. So it was related to hr, although I had no idea what I was gonna do.
[00:05:13] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: It, it is kind of neat though, cuz you, you say that, but unconsciously you sort of landed in the industry in a way that gave you, you know, a window into, into something that is around, you know, very much centered around human relations. Right. About how we find people for the work we need done. So, okay.
[00:05:31] So, you know, when you think about your career, you've had a really distinguished career in search and what, what, what are you most proud.
[00:05:39] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I am most proud of starting my business. Really. I remember talking to my husband about the possibility of it, and he was incredibly supportive and, , as I said, I I, we were having a chat, I think it was on a Wednesday, and I, we came up with the name that night lead search group. And I went into my job at the time the next day and respectfully resigned and got a call from somebody that I knew in a.
[00:06:08] Previous life for my first engagement on the Friday. Like it just, the universe conspired to support me. and I remember going to the bank with my kids who were little at the time with my first $5,000 check and starting L S G and the rest is history. It's the best decision I've ever made.
[00:06:24] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: That's
[00:06:25] fantastic. I
[00:06:26] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: than marrying my husband, but I
[00:06:27] really.
[00:06:27] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: marrying your husband, that was a good one.
[00:06:29] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah. he's wonderful. So yeah, it was just, it was meant to be. And I, I've loved, it's been challenging, rewarding, amazing, but I'm very proud of what it's become.
[00:06:39] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yes. And you should be.
[00:06:41] I liked that that phrase, the, the universe conspired to support me because that's, that's something I think I've uttered as well at certain times. You know, you just think. Oh, what happened there, right? Like it's just everything came together, the stars aligned. It's interesting how that happened, cuz then there's also these fallow periods in life where nothing seems to be going right.
[00:06:59] You know? It's fascinating. Right. And clearly this was meant to be for you given, given how things lined up so quickly. So what would you say you love most about your work, about search? What kind of gets you up in the morning?
[00:07:14] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Lisa, I have such an innate love for what I do. I love people. I love getting to know people. I love hearing their stories. I love asking questions and. . Yeah. That, that is what gets me up in the morning. I moved around a lot as a child. I went to, I think six different schools in different countries, and so I had to adapt and make friends.
[00:07:34] And I think that's a, a, a gift from that time is that now I can, you can put me into a room with anybody and I can talk to them, but I also have a genuine love for people and, and understanding their. And my, I'm launching a new website actually, and that's my, my tagline. Everyone has a story.
[00:07:52] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Everyone has a story. Oh, that's a good tagline. And you know what I appreciate about you, that that is something that's always stood out for me is just your Your genuine interest in people and how you, how you choose to remember details about them. And I credit you for the fact that we're still friends, you know, all these years later cuz you kept in touch with me long after I was, you know, in my role in Sconce there and moving along with my career and.
[00:08:18] and now I, I hope it's more mutual, but I would say initially it was really you keeping in touch and, and I just so appreciate, appreciate that. And I'm always kind of, I, I've, I've told you before, gobsmacked at what you remember, you'd be like, oh, isn't it Patrick's birthday?
[00:08:32] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I was just
[00:08:33] gonna say, your birthday's coming up.
[00:08:35] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: You
[00:08:35] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Thank you for that.
[00:08:37] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: It's crazy and I'm not nearly as good at that. So it, it, it's fascinating, but that's partly what makes you very, very unique or really unicorn, I think in this area you make people feel so special and you're so genuine about it. So, so that's what makes you great. Partly, I'm not even doing you justice, but what makes the best client partner in, you know, in the work that you do, you know, you're partner.
[00:09:01] Partnering with people like the folks that are listening to us right now that are in charge of talent acquisition or do recruitment in their organizations and partner with search firms,
[00:09:10] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: That is such a good question. , I think a partner that values the, the work of a recruiter and views them as a true partner and a a subject matter expert without arrogance. I think recruitment often needs to be a dedicated function, whether it's internally or externally. And so a great client is someone that trusts you, that supports you, appreciates the work that you do.
[00:09:34] There are a lot of recruiters. , there's a low barrier to entry in my line of work. And so people think they can come in and, you know, make a lot of money and it's so easy. And I, I challenge that. I think you have to build trusted, authentic, partnerships
[00:09:50] that are balanced And you know, I don't work, I only work. On exclusive engagements. I don't work as a quote unquote agency with multiple vendors. And I dedicate everything I have to each individual search. And so I think a client that, and that, that comes with time, right? Proving yourself. Sometimes I'll have a new client, I'll have to, to show them just what my commitment to them is.
[00:10:12] that's a
[00:10:13] long answer to your.
[00:10:13] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: interesting. I always, I think of you as having a very relationship based approach and you know, I remember. I think it was unsolicited. I did a, a LinkedIn recommendation for you a very, very long time ago, and, and I remember. I haven't looked at it for, for some time, but I remember the thing that stands out for me is that you're, you're truly that bridge between candidates and the clients and even if you meet people who aren't gonna be a fit for current search, I mean, you and I met and I think it was six months to a year later when something.
[00:10:47] It you thought I might be a fit for, I mean, it's that way of, of, you know, keeping in touch with your network and so on, and really building those relationships with candidates, not just with potential clients. That's, that's interesting to me. How do you do that? How do you kinda keep up with all of that, all these people, you know,
[00:11:04] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: So while I, I'm not very good at it often, but , admittedly, administration is my weakness. But the relationship piece is really important. And so in doing, in preparing for this launch of this new website, you know, we're looking at statistics and my business has been entirely built on referrals and relationships.
[00:11:23] I'm so lucky to have, you know, people that I've worked with like you for 20 years and repeat business. And I really value and appreciate those relationships. I also think it's, you highlighted something important is that I equally value the candidate and the client often, like they're, they're, they're of equal importance.
[00:11:42] Often my clients, candidates become my clients because they have a good
[00:11:46] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, I did.
[00:11:48] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah. . So they recognize that I genuinely care. It's not a transaction for me at all. and so that, yeah, that,
[00:11:57] no, it's not, it's not, it's not a transactional approach to recruitment.
[00:12:00] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Got
[00:12:01] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: not just in it to sort of place somebody and, and move on, and, and I, and I very much appreciate, like you referenced earlier, the opportunity to keep in touch and over the journey of someone's life and career.
[00:12:11] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. And that's, that's really what's I think allowed you right to, to be in business for, for eight years, clearly. Right. So what, so if. If that's what you know, that makes the best client, for instance, is somebody, if we sort of go back to that tack around, you know, they're a, a, a subject matter expert without arrogance.
[00:12:28] They trust you. They appreciate what goes into your work, what can make it harder for you sometimes.
[00:12:33] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: another good question. I think there are a number of things that can make it harder. So if a client views a recruiter as just as a, a vendor and not a, a, a trusted search partner. But there's also a lot of external things, like currently a tight labor market. inflation covid, post covid hybrid work models pay equity ish trends that are coming up resignations, retention.
[00:12:59] There's so many factors that are making things more challenging right now that we're working through.
[00:13:06] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Mm.
[00:13:07] So
[00:13:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: answers your question
[00:13:09] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: yeah, you did I, well you there's a whole lot of challenges out there right now. So Yeah. Well, and that's one of my questions because, you know, when we think about what's going on in the market I'm hearing, you know, it depends on people's perspectives, but yesterday I was speaking to somebody and they said, oh, well it's been an employee market, you know, Very much in favor of employees, you know, lots of opportunity.
[00:13:30] They could job shop , you know, take offers from one place to the other, and that kind of, But then was speaking with somebody a couple people earlier this week too, that were saying, oh indeed, it's still an employee market. You know, it's, it's, it's not that it's shifted yet in spite of inflation and and so on, in spite of Amazon, you know, laying off so many people in Shopify we're hearing, you know, in the news, these big layoffs starting to happen, especially in tech.
[00:13:56] What are you seeing? What's your perspective?
[00:13:59] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: It's like nothing I've ever seen in my career. The mar current market. , I think it is definitely the. , the pandemic has changed the world and certainly the world of work and people and we've had to navigate through that. I do believe it's still, candidates are definitely empowered currently, and it's still candidate market.
[00:14:22] I don't know what the future will hold. I'm trying not to focus on the potential recession, but I. I think that, yeah, it's definitely still a candidate market and I'm trying to navigate those situations very carefully and I've had some of the most challenging searches I've had in my career this year.
[00:14:38] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: and what, why, why specifically?
[00:14:41] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I think because there are so many opportunities for people. I have one particular client that's just been incredible and patient and. . I think we have, I don't know if this, at least if this is a STA I can share, but, so we have two roles and I think we've looked at 16 or 17 candidates gotten to offer with eight and had eight declines before we found the successful talent for those roles.
[00:15:06] And
[00:15:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that.
[00:15:08] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: that. And that's, and I'm hearing that from other recruiters. I'm hearing it from my clients where they're having multiple turndowns before they find the one.
[00:15:16] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My
[00:15:16] goodness, that's so disheartening to you. Having been on, on that side of the desk for so long. I just, I, I, I feel teary-eyed for that poor, clean, that's
[00:15:26] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: And they have been incredible. But that is an example of this market. And you know, two years ago that wasn't the case. Our unemployment I think was six or 7%. Now it's 5.1. It's a modern day low. And so people have multiple opportunities. They're, you know, looking at things like balance, hybrid. We're fully remote work even.
[00:15:46] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yeah. What do people want? What do you, what would you say? Does it really depend on the person or is there more sort of a leaning towards hybrid, fully remote, back in office.
[00:15:56] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I think it depends on the person for sure. But definitely hybrid is I would say one of the number one asks of people. Is hybrid work models. It's the first, one of the first questions I'm asked, and it's also a challenge because some of my clients are a frontline essential business, whether they're in, construction or food production their staff are in the office.
[00:16:20] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: right. So, so, okay, so this is interesting to me. So, so this whole piece around hybrid being the number one ask, so what goes through my head is, is that because people think they can't get fully remote? Like take, take away the front, you know, the essential, the frontline. Okay. And just assume it's, it's a, a role, a company and industry.
[00:16:40] It truly could be fully remote even if, you know, leaders don't see it as optimal. But do you think people are saying, I want hybrid because they think they wouldn't be able to get remote, is my point? Or, or They really do want a mix, a blend of in-person and, and being able to work from home.
[00:16:57] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I think it depends on the role, and again, the person, I would say people do want some connectivity to the business and so I would say that they, the hybrid would be the first choice, especially, and again, depending on the function. So I feel in HR or talent, you have to have that in-person connection and, and there's something lost in a virtual meeting versus seeing somebody face to face.
[00:17:22] And so, yeah, that's how you build. Again, I'm using this word a lot, but trust and relationships and connection to people is, is in person.
[00:17:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes. So it is interesting. Would you say that there are particular roles or disciplines, areas of, of, of work that tend to want more in person? You know, even in the hybrid model, so they're saying we want three or four days in versus one or two.
[00:17:46] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Human resources for sure,
[00:17:49] because they are in the business of people and so they appreciate that and, and, and seek that. I would say HR would be the first that comes to mind. I also do a lot in that space. About 50% of my practices in hr. . It's my,
[00:18:02] I love, I love doing that work.
[00:18:03] Yeah. And I really, I have to do a shout out if I can. I feel that human Resources has been a hero throughout this pandemic. I have a lot of friends and clients and candidates that are in human resources and they've navigated through an unprecedented time with no playbook, have worked tirelessly to, Move to remote work, navigate outbreaks of illness.
[00:18:27] P bring people back to work, try and maintain company culture and K, keep people happy. And it's been a really, I just, I commend HR and talent leaders because it has not been, it's been very difficult.
[00:18:39] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, oh, it has, and, and that whole kind of tireless, selfless aspect. I couldn't agree more because you know, that's who, at least in my group programs and some of my consulting work, you know, that is my audience as well. That's the, those are who I partner with, and. They've kind of been unsung, you said heroes.
[00:18:55] They've been unsung heroes and I think that's been isolating in many cases and really tough, right? Like everybody wants more and more and more and they're the ones behind the scenes figuring out, you know, stuff they don't really wanna figure out. Like vaccine mandates in some cases and you know, you know, or earlier on and how to communicate some really. almost stuff that's become kind of controversial, rightly or wrongly, you know, in the workplace and so many opinions. There's this polarity around, around certain things that they've been ha, you know, charged with implementing and overseeing, and I think it's been exhausting.
[00:19:28] So I
[00:19:29] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I have
[00:19:29] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that. Shout out.
[00:19:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I use that term as well, actually. It's like certain these topics like hybrid work models are polarizing in some ways. And I read this quote, which I wrote down, Forgive me, I can't reference the source right now, but it's talking about HR shifting from human resources to human results, and the pivot is from HR as a support function to HR as a force multiplier on talent, which they really are.
[00:19:53] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Force multiplier. You are speaking my language because that's something Well, no, seriously, because I think I've, I've shared with you, you know, offline. That my mission is truly to help talent leaders be at their best because they're, they're that secret sauce, right? To, to help. They've, they're multipliers in an organization and can truly if they're well supported and well taken care of, well respected and have what they need, then they're in turn, they've got this impact, potential impact on everybody else in the organization in terms of their.
[00:20:26] their development needs. And this is why y you know, I choose to work with them. I, I, I believe in what's possible. So when you say force multiplier from that quote, that just gives me
[00:20:38] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I can't own it, but it's, I, I'll find you the, the source where I read it. I also read another quote that I wrote down which said if I can ex companies that seek to strike the balance between the perceived benefits. Of person to person interaction and collaboration while accommodating an employee preference for flexibility and work-life balance will foster employee satisfaction, engagement, and longevity.
[00:21:04] And so I think that's also, that really resonated with me as well. Reference it going back to that hybrid work model and, and if talent leaders and organizations are willing to embrace this new normal that we're living in and figure out how people can effectively and successfully have that, we'll have greater retention happier people, better results.
[00:21:25] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and being flexible. You know, I, I had a conversation with Claire Kumar who's going to, she talks about the fact that flexibility is inclusive.
[00:21:34] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: flexibility is
[00:21:35] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: a way to demonstrate inclusivity. Right? So it's, it goes beyond engagement even.
[00:21:40] Yeah, I think it is. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that quote. I love it. So another question that I have is, is around you know, with. Hot industries or, or, or hot roll types, are you seeing a particular you know, run on or need in particular areas, especially given, you know, the, the news headlines are pretty sensational with some of these really large layoffs lately, and we're, we're recording this kind of mid November.
[00:22:04] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah, I, it is a very emotional and sensitive time right now. I feel for a variety of reasons to answer your question, I don't know, . I'm a generalist recruiter, so I do work for me. It's the relationship, not the role or the industry. And so I find that industries that are stable, like consumer packaged goods, food production distribution, depending on the product are, are doing well.
[00:22:31] yeah, I, that's a hard question for me to.
[00:22:34] I try to talk. I do, I do a lot in human resources. Again, that has, I, I think going back to the hero comment, HR has become this integral valued member of the business. It's at the executive table. It's, there's, there was another headline I saw, like, HR goes to the C-suite.
[00:22:50] And so there's a lot of, I feel investment or I'm seeing investment in human resources by organizations because of.
[00:22:58] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Okay. So I want to explore that because that is good news because I, I'm starting to see that too, because I think for a long time, you know, this isn't everywhere, everybody's experience, but there, there was this Kind of need to earn your, I think you still need to earn your seat at the table. And yet gosh, I remember Sherry Dondo.
[00:23:19] Saying to me when I first started in, in, with her, but five years later I moved into more of an HR role. And, and she, she said to me, you know, we are not the party planners hr, we are not the PA party planners or the, or the cheerleaders. We are strategic partners to the business. And that has always stuck with me.
[00:23:39] And that's a really long time ago. in some companies though, that's how the senior leadership team has viewed it, right? You can see if somebody's, if, if a company has a C H R O or a C P O, chief People Officer, for instance, versus an, you know, a VP or an SVP of people reporting into the c o o, it kind of gives you an indication as to how they, they view that, that partnership and just how, how much they involve them in those strategic business decisions.
[00:24:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Absolutely. And even the name, the terms are changing, it's people and culture, right? Versus human resources
[00:24:13] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:24:14] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: being viewed as more of an administrative function, and now it's definitely viewed as a strategic partner. more so, which is amazing.
[00:24:20] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, Morris. Oh my gosh. We need that because, because again, you know, HR and talent, organizational development, employee experience, whatever you wanna call, the, these different functions, they, they, they have this, you know, broad perspective because they're working with. , everybody across the business up, down, sideways, typically.
[00:24:39] Right? So they're really well positioned to, to be the mirror, you know, for the senior team and to, and to be able to influence around what's needed and help. I think also help facilitate, negotiate a common ground because it's, it's, as in politics, you can't please everybody. There's always, there's always a compromise, right?
[00:24:59] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah, I was gonna use the same term that they also have a broad range of influence and they advocate equally for the, for the employee and the organization.
[00:25:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: how does that play out in terms of what people are looking for when they come to you for, for HR type roles?
[00:25:14] just wondering if, if there's a, been a greater emphasis on certain skills, like, critical thinking, strategic partnering experience, that kind of thing. Like what's.
[00:25:23] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah, definitely. I think more and more HR is certainly at the even manager, director level for sure. Being invited to sit at the executive table and have a voice. So they're, they are looking for a strategic partner sure. For
[00:25:40] sure.
[00:25:40] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: it makes, it makes good sense. Okay. Okay. Now the other thing I was curious about too is, given this strange market that you've never seen before in all your years in search, what are, are you seeing anything interesting in terms of candidate behavior?
[00:25:55] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yes. Candidates are making decisions with a high level of confidence, which is. Wonderful. It also can make things challenging. You know, I believe that, you know, relationship, going back to relationships are very important. And so I can have a candidate experience or an interaction. I think it's really important to that. That's always a, a respectful one. And I've had some circumstances where, People just simply don't respond or you're the, the term whatever, ghosted or we get to an offer stage and they suddenly decline totally unexpectedly, which I've had some circumstances like that, which I've never had in my career as well, or very limited up to date.
[00:26:40] So that's interesting. , and again, I respect I'm never one to promote a, promote a role just for the sake of quote unquote making a placement. I want it to be a longstanding, amazing match, but I think being upfront, honest, communicate. If you're looking at other opportunities, please let me know. So I've had some that's, are some of the things that I've experienced this year more than in previous.
[00:27:06] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Wow. Wow. Yeah. So it is interesting. So when you say that candidates are making decisions with a high level of confidence, so how do you know? Like what does that look like?
[00:27:17] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: they have multiple offers. They're getting counter offered. They are able to get a role that offers them. The hybrid work model. Organizations are being some more than others, being more flexible to offer different things. , they have choices,
[00:27:37] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. Okay. Okay.
[00:27:39] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: and again, it's with no disrespect to the candidates, I think that's fantastic, but it's all in how you handle.
[00:27:45] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I, I appreciate your approach of saying, you know, will you let me know if you're considering multiple offers and be transparent with me. I mean, you, you can ask. It doesn't promise that they will, but I think being, being upfront about what you'd like to see is, is a good approach.
[00:28:00] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: But I always say this to Lisa and genuinely we have a comment. I'm speaking to a candidate that someone I'm working with, a common objective for you to find a fantastic new job if I am part of that journey. Thank you. That's amazing. If you identify an opportunity on your own that's right for you, I'm equally excited and happy for you.
[00:28:20] And I mean that genuinely,
[00:28:21] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, well, I think that's such a an important approach really. It speaks to who you are philosophically, really, you know, because, because in the end, even if you don't place somebody or they don't go with the, the offer that you were able to, to procure for them you know, that relationship, if it's, if it, if it kind of, Is still on solid ground, then it could be 10 years later that, you know, that person becomes a client cuz they remember how graciously they were treated.
[00:28:47] You know, or they're an ambassador at the very least for lead search. And it reminds me, you know, back my last role. In corporate and I, I, I, I oversaw talent acquisition in, in more than one company. But at that one, I remember working closely with my manager of recruitment Lisa Ranger, fantastic leader.
[00:29:07] And you know, we were really focused on helping her team understand their role as, as diplomats, as ambassadors for the company, regardless of whether. , you know, somebody was declined for a role. We still wanted them to go and, and tell the friends and family. I was treated exceptionally well at that company.
[00:29:24] Even if, even though I didn't get the offer. Yeah, yeah,
[00:29:27] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Or I turned it down,
[00:29:28] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: yeah. Or I turned it down. But wanting them
[00:29:30] to
[00:29:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: they were
[00:29:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: away feeling like, Bare minimum. I have a great new network contact, you know, and I, and I feel good about the experience. Yeah. It's so, it's so critical. All right. Well we are coming to that time.
[00:29:42] We're almost at a wrap. So could we maybe close out with you sharing, I'd love to know what is, what is the biggest lesson you've learned over the course of your, your career?
[00:29:53] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: It ties back to what we talked about at the beginning in that everyone has a. And listen authentically. Don't judge. Have the patience to get to know someone. And trust your gut , trust your instincts.
[00:30:08] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Ugh. Beautiful.
[00:30:10] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: So there's a few things.
[00:30:12] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: There's a, it's a few things. You've got a lot of, a lot of lessons in there, but I think they're all linked. You know, everyone has a story. Be open to that. You know, if we judge, we don't get at the story we we're not open to, to learning more about a person. And the listen authentically.
[00:30:26] The other piece is can you repeat the piece around being patient?
[00:30:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Have the patience to get to know someone
[00:30:32] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Right there. I think that's a be.
[00:30:35] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Thank you. Yeah, I, I, I talk to so many interesting people and I feel so again, that, that's what fuels me. That's what is my passion. This is my, I've, I, I often ask people, what's your dream job? Doing what I do is my dream job, and. you may have a, a conversation with someone and like, learn this incredible story.
[00:30:59] But I have so many people I've talked to that I can think of that have these incredible stories and if you don't take the time to, to listen to them, there's a huge miss there. . But yeah, I wish I could think of something to share with you, but like in the considering conf confidentiality, but I've really, I've met some incredible people and learned their stories and we can't judge, you can't judge whether they're from a different country, if they're from transitioning industries.
[00:31:26] It's listen and learn.
[00:31:30] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes. And, and that patience, that concept of patience, I think is so important. And that's why I think why that resonates with me. I see everybody rushing around. It's very, very intense out there in. You know, organizational culture, generally speaking it was when I was there. It still is. If anything, I think it's gotten worse and people are breathless.
[00:31:53] So, so remembering to slow down, build those relationships through just patience, through just showing that interest and it's, it's, it's really fulfilling too, cuz you just, you build trust in a natural, organic way
[00:32:06] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: and kindness.
[00:32:07] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: and kindness.
[00:32:09] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I talked to a gentleman just really quickly the other day, and he shared with me that he was really, he was nervous for our call. This is at the conclusion of the conversation. He said, I, I was nervous about our call, but I'm, I feel so comfortable now. I'm myself, which to me is like, again, I'm not saying that with any arrogance.
[00:32:25] It was just such a compliment, and that was absolutely my intention. But he was able to share some really interesting things about his life with me, and I was grateful to hear them. . Yeah, just that. So kindness, patience, and no
[00:32:38] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it, it, you know, and again, when it come, if we, if we, if we talk about sp, I mean, I've hired hundreds of people, , I literally have both for my own teams and then had a part in it you know, supporting other leaders in their hiring efforts and over the years, so hundreds of people and I , think there's so much to, to what you're saying is when, when we can help people be at their best and feel comfortable, we're going to get.
[00:33:04] The true picture. It's not in our interest to make people feel on edge or feel like they're they're on the hot seat. You know, it's, it, it's just not worthwhile because then we're not actually seeing somebody as their authentic selves. We're not, they're not, they're not able to really be who they are and give us that sense of, of, of fit, you know?
[00:33:26] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: I approach every conversation that way. Tell me about you. You know, that's not this structured formal process. Tell me about a time when, or, you know, what's your biggest challenge? It's really who are you tell me your story and that's how you get to know somebody. And then I'm, I'm better able to assess, fit to a certain opportunity.
[00:33:44] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and in a tight job market. I mean, it's critical that, that, that. That we take that approach, that very approach, right? That's go, that could make the difference in getting the best new hire or just getting a bum in a seat, right? Because now you're desperate and you've had eight declines. Cause I, you know, I think about, you know, an interview I had fear years back and it felt more like an interrogation because the interviewers did not really look at me.
[00:34:06] They were just taking notes. They asked me question after question, barely any follow up. And this was a senior role. And I, you know, I came outta that interview and I remember. Saying to my husband, I think he's like, how did it go? And I said, well, I think I did the best kind of performance of my life. You know, I really feel like that role is for me and I've got everything that they're looking for.
[00:34:25] But I have no idea how they felt about me. I got no, I, it felt very uncomfortable. Very one-sided. Like it was two people, but it felt like this scary panel. And in the end they wanted me back. But I had de I declined initially to, to move forward with the crisis. Cause I was like, I don't need that. You know, I don't want, I don't wanna feel like I'm being interrogated.
[00:34:47] I want to feel like I'm partnering. So it was, it's interesting, right? So you can turn people off and turn them away if, if you're not taking the time and being patient to get to know.
[00:34:58] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Yeah, it very true. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:35:01] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Beautiful. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
[00:35:05] and sharing,
[00:35:06] little bit about you and, and, and what you do and some insights into overall search and what's happening in the, in the, this realm right now.
[00:35:14] Really interesting. Thank you.
[00:35:15] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: Lisa. Thank you. I think you're absolutely amazing. I'm. Beyond Words. Grateful that you invited me here, and just thank you.
[00:35:23] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, my absolute
[00:35:24] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--guest373313--magdalena: It was lovely.
[00:35:26] magdalena-duleba-lapensee_recording-1_2022-11-17--t05-14-22pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Thanks.
