[00:00:00] The number one challenge I see for talent leaders is getting swept up in what I call the reaction bandaid vortex. This is the place where you're feeling unclear, stuck, uninspired, and transactional. Your confidence may have taken a hit. You don't have time to plan, create, or strategize. You're simply surviving, slapping band-aid solutions on the problems you encount.
[00:01:14] It doesn't have to be this way. The solution lies in deciding to be more intentional. It means you need to set yourself up with the necessary supports and community so that you get clarity on what you want and become consistent and persistent in your pursuit of it. , this is where I come in. I believe talent leaders have enormous potential to make organizations better.
[00:01:37] When you are properly supported, then you in turn will cultivate an employee experience that makes your organization stand out. Whether you're ready to work with a coach
[00:01:48] or a talent management thought partner, or you want to enroll in one of my group programs, I'd be delighted to speak with you about your needs and wants.
[00:01:56] Visit my website, green apple consulting.ca and click on work with us to learn more. Thank you. Whether you lead a C O E or work directly with the business as an HR business partner or leader, you will relate to today's guest. Tune in for some reflections on how important it is to co-create solutions versus coming up with them all by yourself. My guest is Carrie Cartwright. Carrie is a strategic results oriented senior human resources leader with over 23 years of professional services experience.
[00:02:35] Currently, she's the vice president of engagement and enablement at WSP Canada, where she oversees a number of teams that focus on the moments that matter to employees, talent acquisition, talent enablement, diversity and inclusion, and strategic. Carrie holds an honors degree in business administration with a major in hr, and she's at her best when connecting people and helping businesses and leaders bring clarity on how to create the right experience for employees to thrive.
[00:03:02] This conversation was such a pleasure. It feels like Carrie is a kindred spirit that I've known forever, even though we only met recently. Enjoy. Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by my guest, Carrie Cartwright. Carrie is the Vice President of Engagement and Enablement at W S P. Welcome to the show, Carrie.
[00:03:28] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Lisa.
[00:03:30] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So let's begin by sharing with the listeners a little bit about who you are and your career.
[00:03:37] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Perfect. Yeah. Happy. Happy to. So if you can believe that I originally thought I wanted to be an account.
[00:03:44] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh.
[00:03:45] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: And that's really what I, I enjoyed my business classes. I had a bit of a strength in math. And so logically I was like, how about accounting? And I was lucky enough to be part of a co-op program, which I highly recommend for anyone in high school.
[00:04:00] And it was actually through that experience that I realized I wanted to be in hr. I happened to be accounting, and the HR department happened to be side by side, and I got to see, Is crunching numbers and accounts payable that I really wanted to be over in that department. And that's really where I really understood where the employee experience is so important when coming to work.
[00:04:25] And I started to kind of pivot and, and change my direction into, into hr. Got my degree in hr and then right out of university I was very lucky to land a position in one of the big four. And at the very beginning I started in a national role working on kind of special. Kind of strategic projects, reporting directly to the chief HR officer who was the only female to sit on the executive the first female.
[00:04:55] And she was an amazing leader, taught me many things and she gave me a once in a lifetime opportunity, and that was to go work in the uk
[00:05:04] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, I'm so jealous. That is so cool.
[00:05:08] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: I had never really even traveled outside of North America. And so for her to present this opportunity and what was really interesting is we did a swap. So each country wasn't down a person. So the UK sent someone to Canada and I went I went to the uk started there. Again, doing kind of project work, but then I transitioned into being an HR business partner.
[00:05:30] So I actually start, started my HR business partner in a career in another country. So I had to learn kind of employment law. I had never kind of gone through, you know, Displacing anyone, anything like that. So I learned that in a new country, which was pretty exciting. Was there for uh, a couple of years.
[00:05:48] And then when I came back to Canada, I stayed kind of in an HR business partner role, moved out of kind of a national role into more of a. Kind of local operations role. Stayed there for probably a dozen years, but within that dozen years I felt like I had many different careers within that dozen years.
[00:06:08] I moved around quite a bit within the organization you know, trying out new businesses. All still though wearing that HR business partner hat, that's one of the things I loved about the organization is that I could do many things all in one spot. And so I never really felt like. Had to leave cuz I was getting all those different opportunities, which was exciting.
[00:06:28] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Because you spent something like 20 years.
[00:06:30] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yes, just over 20 years. And it didn't feel like 20 years at all, only because I was moving around and having all sorts of different experiences and it was really something that was encouraged. And what was interesting after such a long period of time, not only am I moving around, but leaders are also moving around.
[00:06:47] So I managed to work with the same leaders in many different capacities over those years, which was, which was exciting. And that's definitely one of the things I would say helped me in my career is that I was able to build those business relationships so that as they moved around, they also thought of me as they were moving around.
[00:07:06] Which, which was exciting. And then at one point, probably after those kind of dozen or so years, I realized I needed to make a bit of a shift from being an HR business partner. I was starting to kind of lose my patience a little bit with some of the kind of everyday questions. And so I decided it was time to pivot a little bit.
[00:07:27] And at the. Same time. Lucky enough, the organization was going through a workplace transformation more from a real estate perspective, but they were also thinking about it in terms of how do we decide to, to work, how do we bring people together, how do we use the physical space to kind of enable our culture?
[00:07:46] And. I was kind of intrigued by that notion of kind of getting involved. At the same time as one of the leaders I had worked with for many years he was struggling to kind of stay ahead of what needed to happen and we kind of looked at each other in one meeting and he said, are you interested?
[00:08:00] Would you wanna do this? And I was like, do you think I could do this? And then from there I just kind of jumped in and it was probably one of them, the, the highlights. And. Moved kind of more into kind of a center of expertise type role. Still leveraging kind of my HR business partner background but never really kind of looked back as being kind of going back into an HR business partner role, but kind of kept going down that, that c o e pass loved, loved every minute of, of that project.
[00:08:30] Very stressful. But had a, a huge impact in the organization, which, which I really liked having. And you, Was there for about 20 years. After 20 years, I decided it was probably time to make a change. I still wanted to stay in professional services, though so stayed within that industry. I've always loved kind of the fact that we were selling the intellectual capital of our people.
[00:08:52] You, you know, you can't. Not put your people at the center when, when that's what you're actually selling. But moved into the engineering industry which has been a remarkable change. It's, it's, it's great to be able to see what our people are doing and how that impacts our communities and our everyday communities.
[00:09:11] So it's, it's, it's been an exciting change. And I lead. Like you said, our engagement enablement portfolio. So really what that means is all the moments that matter in people's career. So, joining, you know, being hired, going through that experience, onboarding, how are they developed succession how do they go through change in the organization and how do we work together to create an inclusive environment?
[00:09:38] So I look after kind of all of those pieces and they're really all. Are very culture building moments. And so it was that one conversation with that one leader that kind of got me down that path of, of thinking about culture here from a variety of different perspectives. And I, I really haven't looked back since then.
[00:09:57] But those relationships that I had in the business that really helped shaped
[00:10:01]
[00:10:01] my path through my career.
[00:10:03] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes. Well, and thank you for sharing that overview because, you know, when we were talking before we hit record, you know, I just think it's, it's really fascinating, you know, 20 years in one organization, and yet it's such a massive organization and so many different opportunities in that idea of encouraging people to move around, such that you actually came away feeling like I had multiple careers, jobs within the 20 years without moving company banners.
[00:10:27] So I, I, I think that's really neat. Couple of the things too that I wanted to tease out from what you were describing. Well, first of all, I love that you wanted to be an accountant. I gotta say, I cannot relate though, , although I, I almost minored in math at university, which I think is so funny. I'm like uh, but wasn't, wasn't leaning the accountant way.
[00:10:46] But I think that must be so, helpful for you now, just sort of having that natural. Aptitude for, for numbers and understanding reports, you know, it must, must have helped you in your career.
[00:10:56] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Well, I, I used to always cringe when I would hear my HR counterparts say like, I'm an HR person. I'm not very good with numbers. You know, to pigeonhole yourself that
[00:11:05] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: That's the next piece. Yeah.
[00:11:07] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: You know, it was, you know, it helped me certainly lean into some of the business conversations that we were having, but certainly never wanted to put it out there that.
[00:11:15] I couldn't figure out the numbers. But yeah, I'm certainly happy not to be balancing debits and credits.
[00:11:20] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, I just actually wanna pause on that for a second. You know, like I, I, I've heard many, many people that, you know, even among my clients, that, that will say, I'm not good with numbers and I, I really believe that. That's not true. I don't think you have to be a math genius in order to understand enough to be able to, you know, connect with the business around the things that, that you know, their, with their language, right?
[00:11:45] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I think being able to not be afraid to ask questions and to kind of lean into those business conversations, I mean, I, I was lucky enough to be around the table and many leadership conversations and it was always really important. As the topics changed and maybe there were less evident kind of people topics, we didn't use that opportunity to start multitasking or checking out.
[00:12:14] Those are really the opportunities to really listen and learn and see how you can connect the dots between your expertise. and their business challenges or their opportunities. And the more engaged you stayed in that conversation, then the leaders looked at you more as a, you know, a, a business partner or a business leader, not, you know, an HR person that they have to come to with their kind of people problems.
[00:12:41] And I think that was super, super important at, at least in my career.
[00:12:46] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: yeah. Really demonstrating that engagement in, in all of the things, not just, not just the things that are very clearly more on the hr, HR zone. Something else too that I appreciate about your background is the length of time you spent as an HR business partner and, and while now you're supporting, you know, employee experience engagement.
[00:13:05] Piece, you know, I'm sure that plays in, I, I have the HR business partner background as well. I did that for a time and I really felt proud of that and that it helps inform, you know, how I deal with sort of talent management programs and concepts and strategies. Tell me a little bit about how that experience does shape your outlook in your current role.
[00:13:30] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, I've, I've always been a big believer. You have to find a way to walk in other people's shoes. And so if I think even just internally from an HR perspective, as someone who is part of a C oe, for me to understand the day-to-day challenges of an HR business partner and what they're facing is very helpful cuz I.
[00:13:55] Appreciate where they're coming from. It may alter how I position things. I, I try and look at it in terms of how can I help them with their clients and I can understand where the client is also coming from. And so looking at it from different lenses has been hugely. . And being able to, like I said, walk in other people's shoes it helps, you know, give a different perspective.
[00:14:20] Certainly what I, what I miss is it's harder to create connections into the business from a C oe. So, you know, previously, I was lucky enough to be kind of in a C oe, but I was also in a business leadership team at the same time. So I got that connection. Whereas where I am now, I'm not necessarily in a business leadership team, so it's a little bit more isolating.
[00:14:44] So you have to think of how do you create those moments and get those connections so that you can be informed around what's going on in the business and what are they facing. And again, it comes back to really intently listening. This may sound really cheesy, but I, I try and read everything and, you know, the, the company intranet is like a gold mind.
[00:15:08] You know, people think of it as, daily news, but I think of it as, oh, that helps me understand more what the business is going through, what my HR business partners are, are likely experiencing. And so I, I, I read everything to the point where people say, how would you know that? Well, I'm, I'm just.
[00:15:27] Pick those
[00:15:28] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh
[00:15:28] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: so I can connect them.
[00:15:30] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: yeah, you're speaking my language because I think that's how you. Earn the right to be at the table, right. And, and, and, and earn the respect and, and really are able to provide programs, the services that, that meet the actual needs, right? By being very informed and going about the extra mile, cuz this comes up a lot with.
[00:15:50] With, you know, leaders of COEs that I talk to in different organizations, whether I'm working with them privately or in groups, and, you know, it is, it is tricky. You can feel very disconnected. So it's, it's being, it's not letting that get you down. It's being innovative and trying to figure out, you know, what are other ways that I can I can learn, stay up to date as you're talking about, and create opportunities for me to connect.
[00:16:14] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, and I, I think it also goes to what sort of relationships are you building with your HR business partners? Because it doesn't have to be one or the other. I mean, you can go to the business together. And that can be very, very powerful. And because I have that HR business partner background, I can speak their language and I can also speak the business language.
[00:16:35] So whenever we're working on something, it's very easy to put the employee at the center because I, I, I have those different lenses. But yeah, going together with the business would, to me is, is a win-win.
[00:16:47] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yeah, that's really important. Just that question you pose of what sort of relationship are you building with your hrps because, you know, it's, it's an ecosystem. There's that, inter reliance really one to the other. And we're, we're better when we are working in concert versus at odds.
[00:17:06] And, and you see that a lot, right? Like there can be this real push pull thing going on between the COEs, you know, creating all this stuff that they're really passionate about and maybe not always as. Grounded as they'd like to be in, in, in what the, the business needs are. They're relying on the HR business partner Intel, and then the HR business partner's really liking being ensconced within the business, right?
[00:17:28] And not wanting to give up any of that and sort of, you know, feeling protective of it and so on. And so that there can be this disconnect even if they all typically report up into the
[00:17:40] same silo. There are silos within the silo.
[00:17:44] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Absolutely. I think the more we can co-create together the better our end product is. And so I think that's one of the things I really am enjoying now is there is lots of co-creation and coming together and, you know, we're, we're, you know, working through a problem together jointly so that we have those multiple perspectives.
[00:18:05]
[00:18:05] Yeah, so that's, that's definitely.
[00:18:07] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, the co-creation word really says it all right there. I just, I just underscored that on my, on my notepad here. So, so let's kind of continue on a little bit around some of the other, other things that we wanted to talk about because you know, I, I think that you use some really beautiful language when we were first getting to know each other around helping leaders.
[00:18:29] Be human-centric, and I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about what that looks like in your world.
[00:18:35] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, part of it is. Helping them dig into their human side at the same time, right? As thinking about how they experience work and how, you know they wanna be treated. Having them reflect on what that sort of experience has been like, what their own experience has been, so they can then start to appreciate how important the experience is for others and thinking through you.
[00:19:02] How do they think about their business problems through that lens? Especially in our world where you're dealing with intellectual capital you know, you, you, you have to put them kind of at the center and starting to think through can they accomplish the same business outcomes? But actually starting, not from a numbers perspective, but from a human perspective and from an employee putting the employee at the center helping to understand what that perspective is.
[00:19:28] How do you integrate that perspective in to actually get further in your outcome? And again, it also goes back to co-creation. You know, are there certain things that you can co-create with employees so that you are having that voice? And so. We talk a lot about how are we listening, what strategies are we using to listen?
[00:19:47] How are we pulling in that insight so that they're informed when they're making decisions that they're making and they represent a, you know, a different perspective, right? We're all very busy, so
[00:19:59] it's easy to kind of go down a path and forget that we have actually haven't thought about, you know, the stakeholders, which in many cases is the employee.
[00:20:08] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, absolutely. Critical, critical So what are, like, what's an example of, of a way that, that you've, you know, sort of, that you help? I it is probably embedded in some of your systems or processes that you help leaders keep that employee experience their own employee experience, top of mind.
[00:20:27] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: part of it I would say is just in the coaching and the kind of conversations we try and have and the framing of those conversations. You know, if I just give you a, a really simple ex example. When we started to rebuild our campus recruitment program, one of the first conversations we had is, People reflecting back on how they entered the workforce you know, remember back no different than what I did, right?
[00:20:50] When I thought about, okay, well I was a co-op and I thought I wanted to be this, and I, you know, I landed my job in this way and helping them appreciate. You know, the people that actually helped pull them forward, the sponsorship that they had so that they can understand, okay, I understand. You know, I was privileged to be able to get that support.
[00:21:10] How do I give that support to others? So sometimes it's just in the framing and the conversation that we have to set the context as to why something is important and, and helping them appreciate. I would say those are probably the more informal mechanisms. And then we have of course, you know, formal mechanisms, whether it be engagement surveys or, you know, we have a regular kind of focus groups, if you will call them kind of change networks where we engage with them in terms of what's coming down the pipe, helping them understand what the change is, what's the business need behind that change, getting their reactions, things like that.
[00:21:47] And, Constant circle of of, of feedback, ongoing feedback going on in the organization.
[00:21:52] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, feedback loops. I love it. Can you tell us a little bit more about the structure of these change networks? First of all, I love that you're, you don't, you're not actually calling them focus groups. It's change networks. It's about, it's about talking about and socializing and helping people wrap their heads around it.
[00:22:08] It sounds like any different kind of change or thing that's, that you're putting out.
[00:22:12] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, ab, absolutely. So it's, it started really with we were contemplating a very big kind of cultural change. And so again, gathered a group of in individuals to kind of pick their brains get their reactions. But then as we have, have done more and more kind of acquisitions over the years, That really has been a grounding part in our integration strategies is making sure that we have a group of individuals that can help be the eyes and ears as we go through those integrations.
[00:22:45] And so we will often. You know, bring a topic perhaps that the executive is working their way through. Talk ab talk about it at an employee level, feed the feedback back, actually even through the HR business partners. Through to the executive. And that goes on a kind of ongoing cycle. I actually think it's monthly.
[00:23:05] And. Executives are part of this network in that they're leading the conversation with our support. And so it's a, it's a dialogue. So we're essentially creating a forum to allow that dialogue to happen in kind of a structured way to allow feedback at the right points. Cause there, there will also be changes where the change is going to be the.
[00:23:27] So you're g you're gathering more feedback on kind of approach than you are the change itself.
[00:23:33] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: of course. Yeah. And, and so with these change networks, so h how are, do the people in them change over or how do you, how are they selected?
[00:23:43] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: They haven't really I mean they do as, as kind of things naturally evolve. We, we'll probably have to take a look at that, I would say in the, in the coming year or so to keep it kind of fresh. You know, we're like anything in a large organization you're trying to get a mix of representation for Regions or provinces, lines of business you want a bit of a mix of those people that are gonna, you know, detract from the conversation or gonna advocate for the conversation.
[00:24:13] So it's a bit of a, a healthy mix of that. But I would say across all of the networks we have we probably would have between a hundred and hundred 50 people participating.
[00:24:22] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh wow. So it's significant cuz in terms of employee base, you're, you're, it's pretty big, isn't it? 12,000 I
[00:24:29] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah. 12, around 12,000 now.
[00:24:30] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Okay. So I mean, so when you put a hundred to 150 in the context of 12,000, it's actually is not massive, but, but initially it's like, wow, that's, that's big for the focus group type of idea.
[00:24:41] I really like that model. And I'm hoping for listeners there might be something in there, you know, like how could you maybe leverage that as an idea to create the feedback loops, because that's where I think we get. , you know, stronger and better as organizations, right? Is constantly being tapped in, not thinking, you know, it's one and done.
[00:25:02] We, we got the, the intelligence, the info, and we point in a direction and it's go, it's, it's constantly looping back. Same with any, any stakeholders, not just our employee stakeholders. You know, checking in, not, not, not finishing everything first, you know, let's, let's make sure that we're still on course before we go to the finish line.
[00:25:21] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:22] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. So let's, pivot a little bit here too, because something else that you and I had touched on that I, I'm really interested in and and passionate about is, is this notion that, you know, when you work in, in HR and talent, it's really common to find people who are people pleasing and to wanna be people pleasing ourselves.
[00:25:43] Right? We can see it in others, and we also can see it in ourselves. And you. how do you, how does that show up kind of, you know, for you and, and your team and what are your ideas on, on how to manage that very natural service oriented desire to, to make people happy with what we do?
[00:26:05] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah, it is so hard. I mean, I, I'd like to say I am a recovering people pleaser, but I, I'm probably an active one. . That's in some ways probably why I got in hr in the first place. I, I think we, especially the more Closer you are to the business and understanding that business. Sometimes you fill those gaps where you maybe shouldn't be filling those gaps and you realize you've accomplished somebody else's priorities and maybe not your own.
[00:26:29] think is always a struggle. You know, Really having this firm focus on kind of prioritization you know, what do you need to kind of get accomplished in that week? And I would say the more senior I've gotten, the, the more important that is to kind of keep that, keep that focus. I think the downfall of keeping your people pleasing in check is you can really take on ownership. When things aren't maybe going as they should, or if someone has made a decision that maybe you wouldn't have supported is, you know, how do you keep that in check so that you don't bear the guilt of when things aren't going as they should be. And really wearing that I find can be hard with some of our, you know, most high performing HR professionals is they're such ownership.
[00:27:17] And really they're really ingrained in our business, which is amazing. But the, the downfall is, is that they, they really can take that to heart.
[00:27:27] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Feel things so deeply.
[00:27:29] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yes. You know, they kind of care to a, to a different level. And so I, I think, you know, one of the things that I've learned over the journey is thinking about what I can control and not control.
[00:27:41] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah.
[00:27:42] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri:
[00:27:42] I mean, I'm not, I'm not a deeply religious person that by any means but as hokey the, as this may sound, the Serenity Prayer has been something that's guided me from a leadership perspective, which is really, you know, to grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change. The courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
[00:28:01] And so I often will pause and say, okay, is this within my control or not? Should I sweat about this? Should I stress about it, yes or no? And if I should, then, you know, give me the power to, to go in and to, to influence that. But you kind of have to know when to back away.
[00:28:17] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, so Wise and I appreciate you reminding me of the Serenity Prayer cuz you know, you know, it's, I think that it's a case of overused strengths, right? When we see HR talent partners. Get so deeply invested in their clients' businesses and affairs, and they just, they want so much to be of service and help that they can overdo that caring, compassion and work ethic, that ownership piece that you talked about.
[00:28:46] And it gets us into trouble. So I think Noticing when you're in spin, when you're overwhelmed and stepping back. I like to ask the question, this, this really helped me in my career cuz I, I could go to this place very easily. It's, you know, will this matter a year from now?
[00:29:03] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Hmm.
[00:29:04] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Right. And you know, and also thinking about, okay, so where are the boundaries getting.
[00:29:11] am I blurring my boundaries? You know, or what, what, what are some stories I'm telling myself or assumptions, you know, it's that I have to so invested over here, or I have to work the weekend bec, you know, . It's getting a little more clear on Exactly how far do I need to take this?
[00:29:27] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:29] And I think for me in my career, working with some amazing business leaders who are very clear around. What they were trying to accomplish, what they needed to be focused on, and therefore what they needed to not be focused on and how to work with others to kind of accomplish that.
[00:29:48] And knowing what you need to be focused on and not focused on are equally important.
[00:29:53] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: They are. And I think the not focusing on is, is something that's, that's overlooked. You know, certainly when we look at productivity and even building habits, I've been thinking a lot about that and writing about that recently. You know, it's like, okay, so, so there's certain things that have to, that we need to let go of in order to spend enough.
[00:30:13] on something else that constructive that we're trying to c. Yeah. Fascinating stuff. Oh my God, so much. Goodness. I think we could go on and on Carrie and keep geeking out about this stuff For sure. So we're, we're actually almost outta time. So I would love to kind of finish with one more question when you look at your, your really beautiful and broad career that you've enjoyed, what's been the biggest lesson you've learned?
[00:30:41] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Oh my goodness. So many lessons. The biggest one I would probably say is I don't always have to do it myself.
[00:30:50] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Ah.
[00:30:50] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: For many years I've been an individual contributor. And I, I would say I led teams more influence than through proper hierarchy. But I was always one to kind of roll up my sleeves and kind of get in there. But understanding when it's better to, you know, pull others in and kind of guide them versus me getting in there and getting it done myself.
[00:31:14] And. You know, understanding when that's valuable and when it's not valuable certainly has been helpful. And I think some of that goes back to me as I got older, understanding what I should control, what I shouldn't control and getting it in from, from that perspective. And then I wouldn't, I wouldn't change the hopping around in terms of HR business partner to c oe to working really closely with the business.
[00:31:39] That's probably where I had the most fun,
[00:31:42] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: right?
[00:31:42] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Is, is building those, building those relationships.
[00:31:45] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Well, and, and too, as you know, when you were, you were speaking just around this idea of not always having to do it ourselves. Listeners, I'm sure most of you relate. You know, it goes back to what you were, you were talking about earlier in our conversation, that idea of co-creation.
[00:32:01] I think part of our role, part of the value that we bring as talent and HR leaders is to help others learn that value of co-creation and to help facilitate that. And that means we have to lead, lead the way , you know, through modeling. Yeah. Even though it seems counterintuitive to, to how we, we typically to, to the reasons why we chose this field in the first place.
[00:32:25] Right. It's to help others. Yeah.
[00:32:28] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Yeah. To me, there's nothing more engaging than hopping on a whiteboard together with someone and just marking it up and let the energy fly.
[00:32:36] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: What are all the different ways we could tackle this? I agree. I agree. Well, thank you. What a, what an enjoyable conversation. I so appreciate you the time with me today.
[00:32:45] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-52pm--guest173943--kerri: Likewise, Lisa, thanks very much for having me.
[00:32:47] kerri-cartwright_recording-1_2023-03-29--t01-21-51pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: My pleasure.
