LM Ep 84
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Hello. Hello, Lisa here. Since you're listening to this particular podcast, I imagine you're likely a leader in the area of talent, HR people, culture, l and [00:01:00] d employee experience or od. Are you also a talent leader who is longing for a safe sounding board to bounce ideas off of who's thirsty for some fresh new ideas that will actually work?
Who maybe needs to influence multiple stakeholders who don't always know what they want? Maybe you're somebody who wants to get out of their own way and who's ready for expert, ongoing, and confidential mentoring. If you answered yes to one or more of those statements, then we need to talk In addition to my group programs, I work privately with a select few clients as their talent management thought partner. I will help you over the next 90 days. Finally, create the space, the intention, and the strategy to implement an initiative that's critical to your team's, longer term impact and legacy.
Let's chat and see if there's a fit. Book me [email protected] slash contact.
How do you view your purpose in life, and how does that align or not with your work? [00:02:00] Today's guest is very clear that talent management is in full alignment with her purpose to help people be better. My guest is Anjana Matra Ri Anjana is currently Vice President HR programs and services at C B I Health, which is one of Canada's leading community healthcare providers.
She has a designation as a chartered professional and human resources with a background in hr, business partnering, talent acquisition od employee relations, diversity, equity and inclusion. Anjana shares some really important insights in this episode around how we learn from our kids, how to build buy-in with executive leaders and the importance of diversity of a perspective.
I hope you enjoy the episode. Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. Today I'm joined by Anjana Wira.
Ri Anjana is the Vice President of HR programs and services for C B I Health. Welcome to the show, [00:03:00] Anjana. Thank you. So let's kick off by sharing a little bit with listeners who you are personally and professionally and how you ended up where you are at this time. Great. Well thanks so much for having me, Lisa.
I have definitely been thinking about this experience with you and what it would be like. So my name's Anjana and , was born and raised in BC and have most recently found myself living in Ontario for the LA last five years. In terms of who I am as an HR practitioner, I have been in HR for, Nearly 18 years.
And during that time spent most of it as an HR generalist and have had experiences working with small to medium sized business and across several different types of industries and most recently have landed up at a healthcare organization. Which has been I think an incredible experience, especially during what we most recently went through with Covid.
Mm-hmm. [00:04:00] In terms of myself, Personally, I have been married to my husband, Prashant for about 17 years, and we've got two kids who are turning 10 and 13 in September. That I find myself with every passing year, learning a lot from actually. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 10 and 13. What a great age group.
My son's about to turn, oh, as we record this, 17 in two weeks, which I, I can't believe my little baby bean is gonna, it's gonna be 17 years old. But yeah, they're a very important part of our lives and impacts how we show up at work. For sure. Yeah, certainly. Whether we, you know, get a chance to go back here or not, but I have found, especially as it relates to, you know, some of the things that we've been thinking about around talent management and engaging with folks I find that I learned so much from them. In terms of just transferability of things to think about when you're trying to connect with people. Can you, you know, think of a specific example of what, what you mean when you say [00:05:00] you've learned from your kids? Yeah, so I find that, you know, there can be things as an example that we really think are the right things to implement within our households.
And even if it might be the greatest idea, We think as parents, it should be the right thing to do without getting buy-in from the people that it's actually involving. You can have the best idea and it land completely flat. Mm-hmm. Or what does, you know, what does the need actually look like from the perspective of the person that you're needing to influence and have particular outcomes from?
that I think has been, has been interesting, especially been moving to this next. Phase in stage of life where, you know, they're not little and you can't just have them, you know, do what you want them to do, but now they're starting to think there's a sense of agency and a sense of interest of their own.
Oh, it's true. Well, I, I don't know if you knew this, if I had shared this before, when we first met I'm a former middle school teacher. Oh, so I taught, only did two years and I taught French [00:06:00] immersion and core French too. So ages 11 to 14. And, and I still love that age group because they are really coming into their own from an independence perspective and they are starting to challenge.
You know, and not just take at face value things that adults say to them or ask them to do. And I think that's a, that's a great training ground when you extrapolate that back to the business world, right? I mean, when we, when it comes to building buy-in, you're trying to influence people that you don't necessarily have any kind of control or influence over, right?
So it's, it's, it's purely through helping people see the value of, of, of what you're, what you're offering, what you're suggesting. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I think it's having that practice of, you know, as you mentioned, they're asking why. Mm-hmm. And so it's bringing that really into the workplace is, is, is not just doing it because, you know, it's your, it's your job or it's a mandate to do it, but to ask yourself that why and that why from um, several different stakeholders that you may impact as a result of the [00:07:00] work that you're doing.
Yeah. And it's so funny because, you know, there's, there's, there's memes about it and everything. Like no kid likes to be told, you know, when they ask the question, why? Because I said, so. I actually had a boss say that to me when I was a senior executive, you know, when I said, why? And she said, because I said so.
And I just about fell over. I couldn't believe, you know, that this, that this was happening. But that. You know, when I do leadership training, I talk about that we, we've gotta have a better reason than because I said so. Like, you know, and if, if, if that's the only thing we can come up with, clearly we're not clear on, you know, the context for, for this other person or other party.
Yeah. So how else do you know, does your love for your family and, and so you know, the time with them show up in your work? Well I would probably say. It would've started with, you know, one of the questions, actually, let me go back here, Lisa. One of the questions that you had asked to kind of help center me around today's conversation with you was what inspired you to get into the world of talent management?
Mm-hmm. And what [00:08:00] did It was alignment to purpose. And I feel like that alignment to purpose starts right off with, you know, my family. And so how that really became is, you know, my dad moved both my parents our immigrants to Canada from, from India, and they were able to raise us and provide us the family that we did. As a result of participation in small business. And so that really geared me towards this focus in HR practice and HR consulting for small to medium sized businesses. So that was the kind of the first driver. The second thing was having my dad just really ask a ton of questions around what did I feel my purpose was?
How, you know, how did I wanna contribute back to the community? And so the two things that he really instilled in me was one, just this deep, like strong belief and what he felt my impact in this world might be. And then [00:09:00] secondly, insatiable curiosity. Ooh, I love that phrase. And so what. Talent management, like with this, go back to this alignment of purpose.
Like I know that I am here to help people feel and be better as a result of their interaction with me. Better could be by being more confident, more seen, more ready, more joyful. And I think that that ties into talent management. It could tie into talent management from the perspective of employee experience and engagement.
It can tie in in terms of performance succession. So there's a number of different ways that that might tie in. And I felt like I was able to do this not only as an HR generalist, but in the role of consultant as well. Yes. And what I have appreciated in the most recent years is being able to not do talent management off the side of my desk mm-hmm.
But have it as something that's such a core and integral part of, of my portfolio. Yeah. a couple things in [00:10:00] there too that I'd, I'd like to just highlight is, first of all, you know, acknowledging your dad for having that, Wherewithal to share with his daughter, you know, how important it is to, to, you know, have that sense of purpose and think about how you wanna contribute to the world.
You know, not, not everybody gets that kind of early mentorship and inspiration. So I think that's, that's quite a beautiful thing. And you know, when it comes to your purpose being very much around helping. Other people be better as a result of, you know, their interaction with you. I, I often refer to, in, you know, on the show and in some of my writing to HR and talent leaders as multipliers, right?
I really see them as having this, this infinite potential. And that's why I do the work I do in focus on this group because if I can help through the podcast, my talent talks, my programs, you know, help folks like yourself, like. Who I used to be feel more support supportive and feel more supported and be more effective, then they're better able to serve the people depending on them.
So, so we're [00:11:00] lifting many boats both directly and indirectly. Yeah, I love that. And I definitely feel like one of our major roles in HR is to build capability within an organization as a leader. I think one of, I mean either other than being in service too and like acknowledging the privilege that you've, you have in the role of leader is to leave your team in a better place as a result of you having been there, but they can't be dependent on you.
Right? Yes. No, it's, it's, it's a bit like Support is teaching people how to fish Yes. For themselves. And, and, and I like to think of it as more, well this almost sounds sort of sher alike, I think, cuz my son's been reading or the Al Alchemist Paul Culo in, in in school. And it's this idea of the shepa, right?
Like, it's, it's okay. So I wanna teach you how to fish, but I'm also gonna quaint out some great fishing spots. You know, you don't have to try to look at the horizon and figure out which direction do I go. So I think it's [00:12:00] kind of, fascinating to me how much influence we have. The, the tricky thing is oftentimes we don't exactly know, right?
Because we could be pointing out these fishing spots, so to speak, and providing resources and programs and encouragement and inspiration. We don't always know. What the impact is on people ever and sometimes not for many years later, like when I've heard from some people saying, oh, you really impacted my career when you tapped me on the shoulder and saw something in me, I didn't see myself yet.
And I know that for myself personally. Does that ring a bell for you at all? Yeah. It d i I would say it does. Um, And I think that it is, So important to remember to ask for feedback along the way. Mm-hmm. To actively ask for feedback along the way. Not only just for those positive reinforcements, but to also cuz that that is by the way so important to understand whether you've really hit the mark in the right way, but to also understand that the way you may need to redirect.
Right, like what, you know, we, we, our [00:13:00] intention might have been to teach you how to do X, Y, Z, but have we really pointed you in the right direction? So I think those two things are just so important. Oftentimes, I think we can ask for feedback just to make sure that we're fixing the stakes, but it, it's not just for that.
It's also to make sure that, you know, we know of the impact and we also know where else we might be able to look. Well, it opens up possibility. Right. So that actually makes me think of something else. Cause I know that you've you told me earlier that mentorship has, has played an important part in your career and I was hoping you could share a little bit about that with us.
Yeah. Absolutely. And I feel like I'm gonna go back to family a lot just cuz of the role that they've, that they've played for me. They'd probably be in disbelief cuz of how much we bicker, but they'll, they'll thank me later. So, I'll start with my dad again. So with my dad, He engaged me into discussions around business at an early age.
He was a director of operations for FS Food organization. And I remember being a kid and we'd go for a drive. He'd say, let's go for a drive. I. And we'd sit in a [00:14:00] parking lot staring at another fast food location across the street. I'd say, you know, what are we doing here? And he'd say, okay, well, you know, we're thinking about buying this location.
I'd say, okay. I, I might have been all of nine or 10. Yeah, I'd say, you know, okay, dad. Are we gonna get something to eat? And he said, no, I'm, I'm here because we're thinking about buying this location and I wanna know what you think about it. And I was like, daddy, how am I gonna tell you what you know, to think about this location?
And he's like, well, you might see things from a perspective. I don't. And so, you know, tell me, what do you see? Tell me why do you think this location might be good or bad? Let's think about the cars going by the people. If there's a drive-through and then you just sit back and let me, you know, use my imagination to talk about the experience. And it was, it was amazing. It was so amazing in terms of inclusivity, of thinking and oh, and tapping into, you know, not everybody is going to give much, much shift to a nine year old's [00:15:00] perspective, but wow. I mean, you're gonna see things. He w he would not, and I think it was so powerful for shaping what I believe today so strongly is when you are working in a team, there's no voice that isn't worth listening to.
Like that diversity of perspective is so important. I'll then move to my mom, who certainly taught me unconditional commitment. And from someone who will attest to you know, being an impatient and very passionate person, which is a wonderful at sometimes and, and sometimes, you know, I need to, I need to have my system of checks and balances. That unconditional commitment has really been like that fr frustration check for me. What does it mean to be unconditionally committed? uh, and that could be unconditionally committed to my team. It could be unconditionally committed to a mandate or initiative. And so just that, that commitment that she had that sense of like unwavering care. [00:16:00] Is something that I've been able to take into my work as well. And then I think I've really just lucked out with wonderful educators and wonderful business leaders along the way. So I. Previous program, head of an HR program that I went to out in bc. She was so scary that I knew by the end of the program that I needed her in my life.
And so I approached her at the end of the program and I said, would you mind, you know, continuing to stay connected with me after we've graduated? After I graduated? And I have still talked to her to this day. Um, So what made her scary? now, at the time I wouldn't have described it this way, but I'll tell you what I describe it now.
She's a truth teller. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't matter what the truth is. She's going to tell you exactly as it is. And I think that when you're a kid, that's scary. Because you know, you've got a dream or an idea and she didn't kill dreams. She just really would check you around. Have you done your thinking? Is this, [00:17:00] is this entitlement? Is there a plan? Have you considered alternative viewpoints? Have you earned it? so there was a series of, of questions that she just, she posed and, and they've been incredible. It's so fascinating and I just, I I, I wanna acknowledge that you, you recognized the value of that almost contrarian view, right?
And that you needed that as a, as a, as an alternate complimentary perspective in your world because, you know, I had um, boss who's now a friend who I would say she was the truth teller too. And I found her, I, I don't know if I'd say scary, but I got more frustrated and angry than anything cuz I, you know, the, the challenging questions were so, were such that, you know, it could be very frustrating.
And we worked through that. It's all good. But I'm not sure if you're familiar with, there's a, there's a great book called Ted, the Empowerment Dynamic, the ed. I've never heard of that one. Yeah, so it, I, I think I've mentioned another show, but it's basically takes the dreaded drama triangle, which is around the [00:18:00] three key roles that, that we play as humans when we're not at our best.
So victim persecutor, and I can't think what the other one is, of course, because we're live, but hey, But, so what Ted does, the empowerment dynamic is offers the antithesis for each persona. So, so victim in order to move out of victim, recognize you're there and move into creator, right? Recognize, what do I have control over?
But what you're talking about is, you know, it'd be easy to look at a truth teller. Who, who makes us feel a bit uncomfortable and see things we didn't see as a persecutor. And yet what I'm hearing from you is you chose to frame it, bring her and her persona and what she brought to the table as challenger.
So it's, it's challenging you to get to the best thinking and I, I had that same experience as well, personally, very powerful. Very powerful for me, for sure. Yeah. So when, when it comes to, the programs that, that you're responsible for at c b I, could you tell us a little bit about overall your team and what you're trying to achieve there?
Yeah, [00:19:00] absolutely. I'm extremely lucky to work with an amazing group of humans. So the HR programs and services portfolio at C B I Health focuses on the design and implementation of programs that impact the team member experience. So the type of work that we are, busy doing involves everything from talent acquisition, operations, and general orientation.
Through to performance and learning. Right. Engagement and diversity, equity and inclusion. Right. And then right into hr, information systems, comp benefits and payroll. Right. So it's full employee experience. Correct. Okay. And you've also been right full into, I think you said you're about a year and a half into an over overall transformation and standardization. Of the work that you do in hr, you know, what can you share with, with us about, about that work? Cause I, I think [00:20:00] you're about midpoint, right? On that particular first I hope, I hope it's midpoint Lisa. So, ask you in another year, ask me in another, ask you in another 18 months. Um, journey that we've been on, I think would be most simply described as transformation of HR operations.
I'm payroll. And so that would be taking a look at our hr service delivery model and identifying like how best to provide HR support to our network. And then payroll transformation is exactly that. an organization that's grown over 40 years and through acquisition, how are we effectively conducting the payroll function?
Okay, so when you look at going back to more of the service delivery model that really. Caught my attention there. So what are the, the things like where did you start in this overall? What looks to be like probably a three year effort with your needs analysis and figuring out Wow, [00:21:00] how do we even begin?
Yeah, so where we started is just kind of taking a look at where we had been set up to date and how we, how, how we had been set up included HR administrators, HR advisors. HR business partners, like your stereotypical, you know, line by line allocation Exactly. Structure to support our various different business segments and regions. We started to think about scalability of that model and it just wasn't, It wasn't scalable. And, and certainly not in a post covid environment. So the question really came is how do we provide great HR support, but thinking differently about our resource allocation? And what we were able to do was launch an HR shared service.
And this this launch is happening in. Phases cuz we needed to think about our readiness around what types of HR [00:22:00] activities we were most ready to have, you know, live in this shared service environment. And we launched that in November and have our HR coordinators kind of centralized under this group, which has been a positive experience. We're really in increasingly encouraging self-service, of our employees. And then we'll kind of continue this journey with this next level of kind of HR processes that are ready to be moved over. Got it. Okay. So given where you are, and I get that you're sort of in the middle of the project, but it's a nice, big, meaty, longer term transformational project, so I think it's really helpful for listeners, what would be your biggest piece of advice?
Like what do you wish you knew 18 months ago that you know now? Yeah. I would say when it's come to this transformational work, the biggest piece of advice that I give is being thoughtful around planning and [00:23:00] project management support. I think not only do you need to have a project management orientation, I think you cannot underestimate the power of planning and calibrating against that plan actively every quarter.
Right. So is this, do you mean like working with A P M O or having a project manager on like as part of the project? Yeah, I'd, you know what I'm gonna answer that from? From the perspective of those that might not have A P M O as well as those that you know do. If you've got a P M O, yes, please tap that PMO on the shoulder.
And say, you know, we would love to, to work with somebody from your organization to either equip us with the right tools and templates and approaches and or to walk alongside us for this, this journey. If you don't, then it might be just brushing up on some, you know, project management best practice, taking a look at a couple of templates and incorporating that into the way you do the work.
Yeah. Beautiful. And I, and, and just I [00:24:00] for listeners, if you're, you're lost with that particular acronym, so pmo, project management office. Where they have project managers and business analysts typically that are on, you know, on loan to different projects that in involve cross-functional groups, typically in an organization.
So, with this whole idea of, I you, I wanna pick up on what you said about how important it is to have that plan, that structure, be very thoughtful around that plan and to constantly be looping back to it, right. Checking in. Yep. What are the ways that you did that? What's been the best way to, to manage that, that checking in to make sure he's still on the same page or going in the, the same direction?
Yeah, absolutely. That was gonna actually lead to my second, my second call out around, you know, what, what would I, what would I tell people to kind of keep in mind is something that I use very actively in diversity, equity, and inclusion work, but I think it really applies to, to all of our work in HR programs and services, which is not for us, without us.
So, another strong recommendation is [00:25:00] as you're designing solutions that are meant to better the experience of both your team members and those whom you provide. So the administrative perspective as well as the employee perspective, you shouldn't do that without those folks in the room. So, engage.
Through informed design, ask them questions, have them be a part of the process, check back in, and then really think about your stakeholders. And there's a variety of them in different ways. And so when you're doing that gut check back to your overall plan that you're doing so with several stakeholder perspectives in mind.
So as an example for us, had we not had. in a lockstep relationship with our IT group, we couldn't have been getting through this work successfully. Had we not been in lockstep with folks that had communications backgrounds or change backgrounds, we would not have been able to be as successful as we are today.
Yeah, exactly. Well, [00:26:00] and, and you know, the whole piece about getting user input, really involving stakeholders, right? And, and, and at multiple stages you can't rest on your laurels and think, okay, we've got sign off once, or, you know, like agreement. It's, it's looping back cuz things are fluid and they change.
Context change needs change. Especially today, right? The things just don't stay static. So looping back and having a way to get that, that. Those feedback loops. For listeners to a great episode that kind of connects to this idea is, is the one with my friend and former colleague Paul Eisen, who's got a PhD in Human Factors.
And he talks about, you know, gives some really neat examples of, of getting very deliberate specific insight about how users will interact with, you know, a processor or software. Lisa, the last thing that I'll say and I don't mention this last because it's it's any less important, it's actually extremely important, would be your executive level executive leadership level buy in.
Mm-hmm. And your ability to [00:27:00] articulate the business need and impact of this initiative regularly. Cuz a transformation work does not occur overnight. No. And attitudes and priorities change from quarter to quarter, and so you need to be telling your story consistently and frequently, you know, winning the hearts and minds of those whom. You may be asking for not may, you will be asking for a budget approval sponsorship advocacy. And so, I think that relationship that need to kind of circle back to what was the business case in the first place, what was the impact? And now let's keep talking about it and let's talk about the way that it evolves.
Let's talk about the way that it connects either directly or indirectly to other strategic priorities that the business might have that year. Right. Ooh. Yes. That's, that's a great point. Because. that goes to buy-in as well, right? Because if people are, are, don't see the connection to their other [00:28:00] priorities or things that they, you know, think are important in other areas of the business, then they won't necessarily, get on board with you just cuz you think it's.
It's the great way to go for sure. And even we think about ourselves personally, right? If we set goals that are, you know, 18, 24 months long, yeah, I've definitely set a goal for myself and been like, why am I eating this salad again?
Why am I not buying these shoes again? But then, you know, going back and saying, well, wait a second, I've got this bigger budget goal of, you know, doing this. And so it's no different than we would try to practice in our own lives. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Really helpful. So when you look at the landscape now for for hr, for talent management leaders, you know, things, it's, we've been through quite, quite a, an interesting few years with Covid and, and then the, the hybrid workforce conversation and you know, the quiet quitting, which is.
Not new, but a new term. You know, what would you say are the biggest opportunities [00:29:00] for people in, in our area right now? Yeah. Well, I definitely believe re relationship building is a big opportunity. I think we're in a. A state and situation where leaders need to be more emotionally aware. Folks have really gone through a lot. I think that there's a lot going on socially or politically, even if it does belong in the workspace or not. It's our reality. And so that ability to relationship build with that awareness in mind, awareness of self-awareness of the organization. Leaders are going to have to have relationship building skills and they need to do so exercising emotional intelligence. And that emotional intelligence is it's, it's needed because we just societally have gone through a lot. Mm-hmm. And what we would've once thought shouldn't belong or is irrelevant in the workplace.
I don't think we have those lines anymore. They just don't apply. And [00:30:00] so, I think that relationship building that sense of inclusivity skills around being a more inclusive leader is certainly an opportunity, awareness of self and of the organization. And I think that ties back up to the relationship building.
I don't think you can, as a leader, build an effective relationship with your team nor the organization without having a sense of awareness. I could not agree more. So critical. So critical. So that said, so there's, there's a lot of opportunities. What would be, you know, your guidance around it, you know, because some of the folks I talk to, there's just so many fires to put out, so many things they could be focusing their inten attention on, you know, in terms of opportunities or problems and, you know, what's your kind of take on how to sort and figure out where to begin?
I think my guidance Is probably a mix of knowing who you are [00:31:00] and where you are at as a leader. Mm-hmm. And contextually given where you are in terms of where's the organization you work and your answer will lie somewhere in between that. Mm-hmm. My organization has particular opportunities of its own that also fall as strategic priorities.
either of the organization as a whole or for hr, and then there's me as a leader, I have my strengths and I have my areas of opportunity, and so I need to be able to shuffle through that list and go, where are my areas of strength and how do they serve addressing x, y, Z within the organization, and where am I falling short?
Because I better be aware of those areas and I either saddle myself up with right folks around me. Yeah. So team members who've got those strengths. I, because remember, as leaders, we don't need to have it all nor be everything. [00:32:00] No. Impossible. But we need to create great teams that can. A hundred percent.
Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you for that. So this might actually be you know, tied to your last answer, but I'm wondering is there a business book or a resource that you would recommend to listeners that's really caught your attention? My gosh. You know what? I have to admit that since I've had kids, I used to read voraciously since I ha since having kids, I have just fallen off of that habit. And I, I don't read as actively. I will tell you what I do do. Yes, please. That, that helps. And I think it's a combination of a couple things. So I think one. I think having a relationship with a great HR advisory organization is a wonderful idea. If your organization is lucky enough to have that, we've got a relationship with McLean Company.
I think they're wonderful. And so I think, you know, keeping up with HR best [00:33:00] practice through the likes of McLean or Gartner or wherever you, you know, whatever publishing organization, you know, you might be getting your information is great. I think the other thing that there's two other things that I've done is I think active participation.
In an HR network is important. So I do sit on c H r round tables that are safe and private spaces to discuss current you know, current state, what's going on. People's organizations advice and guidance in terms of how to handle issues, and that is a fantastic area. Yeah, to be vulnerable and to share in solutions and problem solving.
Yes, and I am going to make a shameless pitch for my monthly talent talks, because that's what we do. And they're, they're free. That's not a, it's not a paid membership at this point. And it's not as much of a round table. It's a shorter peer centric [00:34:00] conversation around a particular topic. But it's exactly that so that, you know, To develop a greater sense of connectedness, get a sense of inspiration, and give people some practical ideas to take away, because it can be lonely in, in the HR talent space right, within the organization.
So I really appreciate your reminder to have relationships with, with other, external resources and to build a great team that's complimentary to your own skills as well. And I love, I love that plug. I didn't think it was shameless at all. I think those relationships, those connections are so important.
And for me, my saturation and in reading, I can't wait to get back to it, but it's because I'm busy reading, you know, hundreds of emails a day um, trying to catch that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. When my son was younger, no, no. Or my kids' homework or this or that. And so that, that exchange, that learning through verbal exchange has been so, Important for me. The last thing that I'll mention is finding space for my own quiet. Hmm. And [00:35:00] so, that is something that I continue to I'd say that's still a work in progress I've done over the last couple years. I mean, I carve out five days a week for, for workouts which to me are quiet time because I can't think of anything else.
I can barely breathe through my workout, so Me too. I get it. Yes. Right, right. And then I do meditate. But I do find that in those quiet moments, they do help analysis and processing of what's occurring in your professional world to happen so much more effectively. And at the beginning, you know, I wasn't bought in.
I thought, well, if I'm not thinking about it, then how am I thinking about it? Well, if I gave myself a moment to just rest, oh, and it's so restorative, right? It's restorative. Say to people, you know, that moment when you are feeling so overwhelmed that you just, you can't take a break. You simply can't afford, you have to power through exactly when you need to take the break.
That's exactly when you need to. And I'll [00:36:00] tell you what, what's been amazing as a result of actively doing this, what might have taken me, let's say an hour, an hour and a half to work through can at times be resolved in 10 minutes. Yeah. Because you've given your brain, your, your, your heart and mind, a whole, you know, chance to, to regroup.
And now it's going to be back, you know, fueled up more productive, more effective and efficient. It's crazy, right? I, I, I am the queen of. Converting through and powering through for a good chunk of my life. So now it's kind of part of my mission to help people not do that. It's not efficient and it, and it's, and it's just leads to burnout.
So I appreciate you bringing that up very much. What a, what a beautiful learning fun space for my own quiet, very beautiful way to put it as well. Thank you so much, Anjana. What a wonderful conversation. I appreciate you coming on the show. Well, thank you for having me. My pleasure.
[00:37:00]
