LM Ep 99
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Hello. Hello, Lisa here. Since you're listening to this particular podcast, I imagine you're likely a leader in the area of talent, HR, people, culture, [00:01:00] L& D, employee experience, or OD. Are you also a talent leader who is longing for a safe sounding board to bounce ideas off of? Who's thirsty for some fresh new ideas that will actually work?
Who maybe needs to influence multiple stakeholders who don't always know what they want? Maybe you're somebody who wants to get out of their own way and who's ready for expert, ongoing, and confidential mentoring. If you answered yes to one or more of those statements, Then we need to talk in addition to my group programs, I work privately with a select few clients as their talent management thought partner, I will help you over the next 90 days, finally create the space, the intention and the strategy to implement an initiative.
That's critical to your team's longer term impact and legacy. Let's chat and see if there's a fit. Book me online at greenappleconsulting. ca slash contact.
How do you support employees who happen to work inside people's homes instead of [00:02:00] in a corporate office? Today's guest comes from the seniors living industry, which is the industry I supported actually in my last corporate role. Tune in for some unique insights into this purpose driven world and ideas on how to support employees who don't work behind a desk all day.
My guest is Jeannie Ambler, Vice President of HR at BHI Senior Living. She's a high energy, innovative, results oriented professional, and with over 30 years of corporate experience ranging from HR to operations, she brings really strong business and leadership perspectives to the conversation. In this episode, you'll discover insight into how one HR team operates in the unique seniors living industry.
An example of how purpose really does drive engagement and the satisfaction and tips for how to reframe a situation where you aren't as far, far along as you thought you'd be when it comes to your strategic plan. Enjoy.
[00:03:00] Hello, and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Jeannie Ambler. Jeannie is the Vice President of Human Resources at BHI Senior Living. Welcome to the show, Jeannie. Thank you so much, Lisa. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation.
So, I believe you're out of Indianapolis. Just that is correct. Yes. All right. And so maybe you could tell us a little bit about you, besides that piece of information and, your career journey to date. Sure. Absolutely. I think it's so interesting because I've, I've listened to your podcast quite a bit and, and others.
And I would say 90 percent of the people say, I did not start in HR. That was not my degree. That's not where I started. I found this path through another, another area. And my story is exactly the same. So it's not novel at all. I started in, in banking and thought for sure that I would have a. a long career in, in retail banking or possibly commercial banking, and [00:04:00] ultimately ended up in HR.
And that was due to someone seeing something in me that said, Hey, I think this is a great fit for you. And then me just digging a little bit deeper and finding out more about the position and the opportunity. And the leader who gave me that chance, that first opportunity in HR was really one of my, my very first.
Mentors, especially as it relates to human resources. I had absolutely no experience. I didn't know what I was getting myself into, but very, very quickly. I knew that that was the right career path for me. And so almost 20 years later. I have not looked back. I've only looked forward and dug more and more into the HR realm, which has been really fantastic for me and have held a variety of different positions within human resources.
The one that I'm currently in is very exciting to me because prior to my position being created and me being hired. [00:05:00] At BHI Senior Living, which is where I am today, we've not had this type of functionality, this type of position, and I looked at it as just a wonderful, thrilling, exciting opportunity. To build something completely new to start from what I would have said was scratch at the time, but probably less than scratch.
I keep telling my team we're building a foundation, but then I realized, wait a minute, we got to get in the basement first and make sure that the basement is all new. waterproofed and you know, before we can even go up to the first floor. So it has been quite an interesting journey over the past year and a half plus just being able to to build something new, which just gets me so excited and thrilled to be part of it.
Yes, I think you're a fellow builder. I'm a builder too. I like to build teams and programs and new things. Yeah, it's really exciting and satisfying. So I just wanted to go back to something [00:06:00] you said because you made this comment that you know, you didn't start out in HR and someone had seen something in you.
This comes up a lot. And, and I, I've done a lot of. Thinking about this recently too, because I, over my career, I've often seen something in somebody and tap them. Could you come and try this? I think you'd be good at this. But also that was modeled for me towards me and you're, you're saying the same thing.
What do you think it was that they saw in you that they thought Jeannie would be awesome in HR? Yeah, I, I think that it was my propensity to focus on the people and being able to. Okay. Appropriately balance that with the needs of the business. A lot of times people from the outside and looking at human resources think, Oh, well, they're, they're just all about the people and they're just going to do everything that, that the employee wants and, and have all the focus there.
Or they're just about punishing or finding the wrong and, you know, adhering to [00:07:00] policy. And really, there is this wonderful balancing act. That has to happen in human resources in order for us to balance the people side with the business side. And so I think that they saw that they certainly saw that I was someone that liked to experience new things and to be able to to pull, pull people together and, and connect people appropriately to.
To, to accomplish new things as well. So I'd say some of that and, and, you know, quite honestly, what one of my top CliftonStrengths is positivity. They probably saw a lot of that too, that, you know, you think of the bubbly HR person that's just, you know, happy to help and wants to serve. And so they probably saw a bit of that as well, which has served me well.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, it is interesting because, you know, as you were saying that the positivity, I mean, I've known lots of HR people that are, you know, the height of optimism. I, I'm an optimist myself. I had to [00:08:00] learn to also look for flaws on purpose, right? To get to the best thing. That didn't come naturally.
And, and I've also met many HR people though that sometimes they're, they're, Yeah. Not so much optimist. It's surprising, right? And they're more around the policy and upholding how, you know, doing things correctly and so on. So, when you say that, you know, some people think it's okay, HR is all about, you know, the rights of the employee and thinking only about the employee or it's all about policing or policies and so on.
I appreciate that, you know, it is truly a balance because if you think about HR. In that I call it the sticky organizational middle. You've got this 360 view. You're, you're serving and, and surveying the needs of the entire organization, which includes leaders board, you know, it's not, it's not any one thing.
It's so layered and multifaceted. [00:09:00] It most certainly is. It most certainly is. And the, and the best people the, the, the most talented people that I've met in human resources are able to experience all of that and really round themselves out as well. So that it's not just we're, we're stuck in the policy or we're stuck with the people or we're stuck with, with any particular piece of it.
It's that they're experiencing Experiencing different pieces of it and they can bring that all together so that they have that holistic view and, and having a great understanding of the business and how the business operates is a big piece of that as well. Oh, absolutely. You can't operate in a vacuum and, and you know, and that, that, I think that was another episode where we talked about.
As talent in HR professionals, we can get so we can fall in love with our programs and with us. And, and so, and not understand where, you know, people don't want to adopt them, right? Like, you know, this happens in the entrepreneurial world as well. It's really [00:10:00] interesting. and so we can get so enthusiastic, but we have to remember it's first of all, what's actually you use, use the word appropriate a few times, what's appropriate.
given what the business is doing, given who you're serving, not just, you know, knowing the blood sweat and tears that went into X program or strategy. So true. So true. We do. You know, I think we kind of start out in this area certainly based on what we've gathered from the business where the issues are, where the concerns are, where the problems are.
And then we back into how can we develop something to solve for that. So if it's recruiting, for example, and you know, we're in health care. So Yeah. If it's recruiting for those in health care and we're, we're having trouble finding the right talent, finding the right people and then we go into our, our little office, our, our area, you know, our HR pod and, and come up with all of these fantastic ways that [00:11:00] we're going to solve for this.
If we're not. collaborating with the business. If we're not coming back and saying we're thinking about this or how about that, then as you said, we can, we fall in love with our program and then we put it out there and expect everyone to have the same love for it that we do. And what happens? It falls flat.
It's not what they needed. It's hard to adopt. They just don't want to adopt it. If we're not having that constant conversation about what's the right solution and how can we lend our expertise to build that right solution, then it's just, no one's going to be successful. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's, you know, build the right solution and then keep checking if it's still the right solution.
That's where the biggest opportunity lies in, in, in what I see on a day to day basis. It's You know, I call it embrace the iteration. So it's a, there's, there needs to be a continuous feedback [00:12:00] loop. You know, you can agree with your stakeholders. Okay. We're all crystal clear on what we're going to go and deliver.
And that's going to change. It's just expect it will. And it's fluid. And so there has to be multiple, regular, frequent check ins. With stakeholder state, we've gone out, we've started to do this build, and this is what we've discovered and what's happened in your world. And how does this intersect? And you know, what does that mean to, to now where we're going?
Absolutely. And it happens faster than you think it's going to happen. I mean, we rolled out a new program for, for developing some entry level health care workers that that, you know, we, we collaborated, we pulled in the right stakeholders, we, we brought everybody together and we knew that there would be building on top of this.
We knew that there would be future iterations. But it, you know, it's been only a couple of months in progress and one class through. And already we've got a community that's saying, hold on, we also need this. And it's got to, it's got to [00:13:00] tweak that way. And so sometimes, you know, you're kind of onto the next thing because again, we've got, we've got a lot of building to do here.
And so we're focused on what's that next priority and to come back and ensure that we are tweaking and, and making things as. Good as they possibly can be on a regular basis, it takes a lot of time and energy, and you have to be very focused in that area. And the energy piece stands out for me because, you know, I used to rail against that.
I'd be like, Oh, I can't just know what you want and stick with it. You know, which is so unrealistic. Like in, in that scenario, I'm the problem. like, I've stopped being open. And and I've got unrealistic expectations. So I think that's really important to underline here that you know, you said.
You know, this, this change, this, this requirement to kind of, adjust in the moment to meet changing [00:14:00] situations and, and, and circumstances happens faster than you realize. It does. So let's go in expecting that and, and build our strategy accordingly, cause it's a dance. It's a dance really. Like I remember in coaching school, this, there was this metaphor that appealed to me.
So, so much. And it was this idea of You're it's like, you're watching the conversation from the balcony while you're dancing in the moment. So it's there's this healthy tension between the 2 things. You've sort of got to be above the clouds a bit and in it. And I think that's the same for our discipline of HR and talent, right?
Because you've got to hold the strategy and help everybody, you know, remember, what are the outcomes we're striving for here? What are the results achieve? And let's be really agile and flexible. As we move along, it's nerve. Agile and flexible while we're still sticking to the parameters of what we've built, which is also hard, right?[00:15:00]
Because we're really, we've built something that is super strong and is based on first of all, the needs of the organization, the needs of the people within the organization. Any type of external factors that we're bringing in that we're saying, hey, this is something we think can can work really well.
So we've built this honestly great program that has these parameters, these guardrails that are important for us to stick to. But within there. We might have to fill a pothole or paint a better line. So people can stay in their lane and, and, and navigate a little bit better. Or maybe we need to curb the lane so that people can go in a different direction.
So, yeah, being very agile while still sticking to what we know we need to do. And not just scrapping the whole thing and saying, well, that's not a road we're going to use. We'll go build another one over here. Yeah. That's what drives me crazy is, is we don't have to trash the original strategy or desired outcome.
Right. So it's, [00:16:00] it's just, it's more like it's a zigzag, not a straight line. Yes, still moving from point A to B. It's fascinating. Okay. So let's let's take a little bit of a left turn here. So, so at BHI, so BHI is seniors living seniors housing. So this is retirement living, or does it also include, long term. Yes, we're the full continuum. So we're from independent living, assisted living, what you might call skilled nursing or a nursing facility. And we also have memory care and we have that at all 9 of our campuses. So we, we really work to ensure that people are. we've got the best quality of life for older adults within a secure environment that supports their, their needs, their values, their interests and independence, while also encouraging personal and spiritual growth.
And that's pretty much our mission statement, what I just spouted off there. So, but that it really is a great way of describing [00:17:00] what we have in place. And honestly, we're, we're an organization that focuses on. Senior living, which in of itself is very diverse based on, you know, what I just said, from independent living through quite honestly, end of life.
And we basically operate small cities within each of our communities. We have dining and housekeeping and maintenance and activities and entertainment and wellness and, and, you know, and then healthcare, all of that in there as well. So, It's really an interesting business to be in. It's a very, I believe, noble business to be in, but it's changing every single day.
And as, as our population continues to age and people want things different out of their senior years, then we continue to have to adapt and as well. Yeah, it's it's interesting. It's a full spectrum of care across nine campuses. I, you know, I've shared with [00:18:00] you that my last corporate role, I led talent management at retirement residences, which is a huge operator with 200 homes here in Canada.
and it, we used to say the same thing. It's like operating small cities and each residence was kind of like this own. Business almost in and of itself supported by fairly large corporate home office. So, yeah, very complex and purpose driven for the majority of, you know, certainly the employees that I worked with people.
I don't know. They, they, I, I found that it was pretty universal. Everybody that worked there, you know, really aligned with the purpose of, of caring for people, making people's lives better was the mission there. And, you know, cause it's a tough time. Like when we developed the sales program, I'll never forget, like sales in retirement living is a very different thing than when you're selling.
And it's, I don't know. What would you, a product, right? Or some other kind of service, because this is where there's, there's, it's [00:19:00] fraught with emotion and difficulty. The husband just died or stay in my own home. It's a danger, you know, whatever it is, it's, it's a, it's very, very different. So that's after your career coming out of many other different industries coming into this, what has been the thing that struck you the most that kind of like made you go, wow.
I think that part of it is just the, the complexity of it, the, you know, knowing that each campus is, is a small city and that there are so many different services that are provided to our residents and our residents are again, they're all people and they're all different and they all have different needs and wants and ways of receiving those services and, and how they how they interact With with each other and with the staff, so that's been just a really fun learning to get to know more about that and how that all fits together.
I already knew that it was highly regulated. I [00:20:00] came out of banking and insurance. So, you know, it's very familiar with the regulations and such. I think 1 thing that you said that that was another, aha, I guess, or a learning moment for me is the, the purpose and the passion that our employees have with what they do, the purpose they find in the passion they have with what they do.
And that, you know, employees will frequently either in my conversations with them through our engagement surveys, describe it as. Working with family and it really makes a lot of sense for several different reasons. First of all, they actually are working in people's homes. These are, you know, these are people's homes.
They are there in and out of their homes. And so they learn the ins and outs of daily life for so many of the residents. They get to meet their family and their friends and they start connecting with them. And then again, you, [00:21:00] you want, you want to be in an area where you are building that relationship, where you are getting to know people.
And. You know, when when Mrs. Smith is doing something a little bit different than what she normally does, you're able to pick up on that and to say, okay, this is different. Maybe we need to look at something here or or talk to her family about that. And and so that type of healthcare environment is completely different than working in the ER, the emergency room or.
being in a doctor's office. So it is a, you know, these are all passion driven, purpose driven fields and areas to work. But it isn't, it is different to, to be working in someone's home, getting to know them day after day and building that type of long term relationship with someone that ultimately May not be here anymore, you know, in the future.
So, so, yeah, it's a it's a [00:22:00] different type of atmosphere. And I think that was a really great learning. And it's it was important for me and my staff to learn because that helps drive again. A lot of the things that we do because we know who our employee basis. We know what's important to them and what drives them to do what they do every day.
Beautiful. Yeah. So, and then that takes us into, you know, this, the, the, the whole idea that employee experience, right, which your team has great influence on drives that customer experience because your residences, residents are your customers. So, yeah, working with family in people's homes. I, that really, I wrote that down.
That really resonates for me. So let's, let's talk about your team then. So. They're in, in a position to support the employees to provide this excellent care to a vulnerable population and you had shared with me that when you first came in just over a year and a half ago that things looked very different in terms of HR staffing.
Could you fill us in a [00:23:00] little bit on some of the transformation that's occurred? Sure, sure. Absolutely. We were we're very focused on the tactical part of HR. And by that me, I mean, payroll absolutely has to get done. People need to get paid and benefits, which is expected and, and is very important as well.
And, and is the. Foundation of what we do as an organization and human resources. And it's vitally important. So we don't want to get rid of any of that. We can't get rid of any of it. We can't lose sight of the basics, but what we wanted to do was to take that and then grow on it. So get as. Efficient and as effective as possible with processing payroll, for example bring benefits in so that it was very focused by one person or small group.
And that in each of our communities, our, they were HR coordinators. Now HR [00:24:00] generalists could get the focus away from that a little bit and focus more on the employee experience, the engagement of the employees. On the recruiting and the talent acquisition piece of it on really being able to be proactive about who we're bringing into the organization and then proactive about how we retain that top talent in the organization as well and building those relationships a little bit stronger rather than being the person that people come in and ask them to print off their payroll stub.
Really focused on. Okay. Well, where, you know, what do you look like? What does this look like for you? What is this this career journey look like for you? And how can we help you get where you would want to go? And what are the opportunities for you? So really being able to build stronger partnerships and relationships in order to further the, way that our, that our people move forward, honestly. [00:25:00] So, so we, we started, you know, kind of, I would say small, but it was not a small change at all. It's been a very big change. We're doing some very transformational things and it's groundbreaking, not in the sense that it's groundbreaking in the whole realm of human resources, but it's groundbreaking for our organization to shift focus.
like this and to take away some of those things that some people felt very comfortable with and wanted to continue doing. And now we've said, okay, but this is our new focus. And that's really hard for folks to first of all, to, to understand what that strategy is all about and why we're making a change now.
But then also to kind of reckon with themselves, is this what I want to do? Or do I want to look somewhere else? And that's difficult for not only the HR generalists, but also for us as an organization, because we don't want to lose good people and they're all fantastic [00:26:00] people. And, and we have, you know, a couple of have decided that there's, there's other things that they want to do and have, have left the organization.
So, so that's been a big transformation. Yeah. Well, and, and, you know, listeners, I'm sure some of you are sitting there going, Oh, yeah, talking about right. Like, because I'm thinking to myself, you know, when I first joined Charwell, I remember we had, I think, two trainers in the whole organization. This is a big, big organization one over in the finance area and one over and I don't know, operations or something.
sort of embedded in the business, but not in the homes at all. The, the training, the mandatories and everything was sort of handled on site by, you know, a nurse on the side of her desk or the general manager or ED. And, you know, there was no sort of rhyme or reason just because they hadn't got there yet.
It was just, it was a maturity issue. It wasn't a desire issue, just, you know, and, and, and it's all about capacity and budget and all that kind of good stuff. But I remember. That being really, really tricky is helping people, you [00:27:00] know, understand there's still value in what they do and we're shifting it.
So, so how did you go about upskilling? That was a term when you and I first met that you use. Did you go about supporting people in terms of this, you know, to support the transformation? Yeah. So, so first I started by building a corporate human resources team because we, I knew that this was not something I was going to do alone.
When I started, there were actually, there was actually one other person in corporate human resources. And then we were pulling in a third person who had held some administrative roles before, and we were pulling her in as our payroll director. So no experience in payroll. No experience in human resources directly in the midst of it.
Certainly from from her previous roles, she she'd had some experience there. So very, very quickly, I knew that we with our focus on recruiting and talent attraction, we had to have some talent acquisition folks [00:28:00] in. And so I called on someone that I'd worked with previously, who had a lot of experience in H.
R. But not in the talent acquisition discipline. And I talked to her a little bit about, you know, what I was trying to build and said, you know, this is probably not something you have an interest in. And I let that sit for a while. And then she came back around and said, well, I kind of do have an interest in it.
Let's talk more. And what I knew from working with her previously is that she could build anything. She didn't need to know talent acquisition in order to build it and make it successful. So bringing her on was. really, really important in, in that whole, whole piece. So that, so that I could say, okay, you take that, you know, what, what I, the way that I operate as a leader is to hire the very best people I possibly can to give them or to create with them a shared vision of how we're going to move forward and then to [00:29:00] let them go and do their thing.
And. You know, we connect on a regular basis to talk about, okay, we're moving this forward or this is a, this is a sticking point or here's an obstacle, but let them do their job. And I know I'm not, that's not a novel thing for a leader, but so many times I see people who don't allow that, who are constantly in the mix of it.
So that was really important to me as I was, I was building this team to hire the people that could. take charge and take it, you know, take it to the next level. So that was really important. And then I hired a talent acquisition manager and she had no experience in talent acquisition. and recruiting or HR, she came from the business side.
She was actually one of our administrators in training and just. Kind of, you know, through some projects that we worked on said, I have an interest in human resources. And so we found a way to layer her in and she has done just fantastic work with our social media game, which was non existent. And with our, with our recruiting [00:30:00] programming and building some things and putting them into So again, I saw what she could do and she brought that into human resources.
And, and the same with the rest of the team. I could go through all of them. We have a total rewards director who previously was leading all of HR and then came into corporate for She was leading all of HR for a, an organization that we affiliated with. So she had, she had two, two sites, and then she came into corporate and she's leading compensation benefits and employee wellness for the entire organization, which is a huge lift.
And, you know, different, she's.
And then hired someone into our, our HR management system who didn't have experience with the system we use, but had it, you know, just understand systems, which is that was a game changer as well. So we built this really strong HR team so that we could start to build on the rest of the team as [00:31:00] well.
So that was kind of step one, which is like step one through seven, I think. Really? Yeah. Well, I, you know, I, you're pulling back the curtain for us a little bit because again, I know that listeners are going to relate because I certainly do. But this idea that, you know, you're growing a team, first of all, and You're really, I hear you being a leader who was like, okay, I need people who are autonomous and, you know, that, what did you say?
You know, I want to be able to let them do their job. So it's hiring, not just for skill. I think we get stuck sometimes on what we need in the job description. Right. We see it in hiring managers. It's easy to see them, see that in them when we're supporting them. But it's also in, in HR and talent, right? We get stuck on what we think somebody has to bring in terms of, of experience or credentials.
And sometimes it's just, it's, it's, we've got to look more holistically at the skill that they bring in. How might they apply that? Right. I think that's core in upskilling and that's been, when I think about it, [00:32:00] that's been a core talent acquisition technique for me over the years as well is, is especially so, Christine, you're about to get a shout out, friend of mine, a good friend of mine who started out as a colleague.
I hired her 3 times in 3 different companies and each time, you know, it was, it was a bit of a stretch for her and it wasn't something she'd done, but she just had this. Has this ability to learn quickly and she doesn't need babysitting and she asks great questions and you know what I mean like it was, it was more this the mindset that she brought as well as that, people skill that she also had and, and, you know, that study kind of ability that's so critical.
It is. It is. I read a quote or I read something recently about how the role of a leader is to unlock human potential and, you know, to be able to tell the truth, paint a vision about where we're going and then and what the future looks like and and talk to [00:33:00] employees about where they want to go and how they want to get there and then allow them to really do that.
And, and I know, you know, this is, this is a lot of the coaching that I do with our leaders at BHI. I know it takes time. I know it takes time to sit down with each individual direct report and talk to them about their, their goals and what they want to achieve and, and how they can get there and how you can assist with getting there.
And you think you don't have that time, but. The truth is you don't have time to not do it. You don't have time to waste. You have got to get into that rhythm, that way of approaching leadership, or really you just keep spinning around and around and around. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's, it's, it's the short term versus long term payout.
And it's so easy to get, get caught up and, and see the short term as, as more attractive. Like I don't have time in the [00:34:00] moment. So I'm going to see mine versus invest the time. It's, it's like anything, it's investing money, investing time, investing energy. Think about the long term. That's right. Yeah, that's right.
Now we're, we're, we're approaching kind of the end of our time here, but something else that I think is really important that I'd like to touch on is you had shared with me that, you know, and I think people are really going to relate to this, that originally when you started, At BHI, you had envisioned, as we do, being much, much further along than where you are now, not to take away from the transformation work you've been doing, laying that strong foundation, building this gorgeous team you have.
But tell us a little bit about that, like, like how. How big were you, were you dreaming? What's the differential here? Yeah. Yeah. I definitely am a long term thinker. I, I see what the end looks like. Not that there's ever an end. We never get there. We're never done, which I think is just [00:35:00] fabulous and fantastic thing about life.
But you know, I kind of see where we can be, what it looks like. And so in my mind. We're already there, whereas I got to pull myself back. I have, again, a great team that helps me stay grounded so that we actually are working through this bit by bit. And so I think I, you know, kind of saw, Oh, we have, as, as we talked about earlier, we have these fabulous programs.
We will build it and everyone will come to it and they'll say, Oh, you're so wonderful human resources. Thank you for coming to save us. And, and I know, you know, in reality, I know better. but, but what I've really come to, I can get the other thing about, about me as a leader. I can get one of my other strengths is input in CliftonStrengthsFinder.
And so that means I like to gather, I like to collect, I like to read the next article and, and, you know, I can get shiny objects. Syndrome very easily. And so what [00:36:00] I've really had to do is kind of pare down, what does my vision, what does my future look like? And then how does that interact with what we really need to do and how does it interact with what we can do?
And that's the key. How fast can we move? How quickly can we put things in place and still have people adopt them and use them and be successful with them? And so having that patience has been super important. Really looking at where's the highest value and how do we prioritize it? Appropriately to get to that highest value has been really crucial and, you know, we're, we've, we've continually been pivoting to different things and layering on different things and, and helping people to utilize those, but.
But the patience piece of it is the most important. [00:37:00] It's not, you know, where I was thinking, Oh, within two years, I think we'll be here. Yeah, we're looking more like five years. And here's the interesting thing, because I had this conversation with one of my direct reports the other day. And I said, you know, I think we're really on a five year plan to get to what, what we were talking about.
And she said, yeah, that makes sense. And I just, I expected her to say. What five years? I don't think so. No, she totally was like, Yes, we have to give people time to to take it in to actually make the changes to actually make that shift because just because we know it's the right thing to do. And it's going to make their lives so much easier.
And, and as I said earlier, it takes time. But when you get it right, you're actually creating time for yourself, you're actually making a stronger team, building a stronger team. Great, thanks. People don't realize that just by you saying it, they have to experience it over and over and over again in order for it to actually [00:38:00] become, yeah, this is the way we do business.
Yeah. Oh, so much in there. resonates. I mean, it doesn't matter how fast you produce stuff. It will are not. Adopting it. It just doesn't and you built it for not right. And, and, and this was a hard lesson for me. So I, I was also smiling there because you and I share the input strength. So, so, you know, this collector of ideas, information, magazine, and, you know, like, whatever it is, like, yes.
Collecting and then I have speed in, in disc. And so on my highest or strongest anchor is the steadiness way at the bottom there. So like, I'm not steady. I'm, I'm like, let's go. And so this idea of slowing down to go fast was a lesson that was. You know, I had had to learn and continue to have to learn over and over.
So I appreciate what you're talking about here that you know, and sharing that, you know, yeah, you have this big vision and I think that's okay coming in and then you learn the things you didn't know, [00:39:00] right? You understand where were their assumptions and oh, where are their complexities and, and adjust as you go along.
So it's okay to have the big vision and to not be quite where you might've thought you want it to be. You're still further along than you would be without that vision. Absolutely. We are. We are light years further along than what we were a year and a half ago, which is again, the very exciting piece of it.
And and the last thing we want is for people to be sitting in communities saying HR. Gives me one more thing I have to do. I am out of here. You know, we, we want to be partners. That's really, really important to us to be partners in the solutions instead of creating all of the stuff that we know is probably the right stuff.
And then just throwing it all out there because that's not going to get anybody anywhere. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Other than frustrated. And yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not. [00:40:00] Well, and it's tough because sometimes HR, you know, like, because it's, it's so complex. There's so many things within that discipline. You're in a position to have to serve things out to the population, right? There's policies, there's all the foundational table stakes stuff, the comp and ban, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the development stuff and the talent stuff. And so people can start to feel like, Oh, my God, I'm just catching all these HR balls and it doesn't feel great.
Right? So, Helping prepare people to want to catch them, I think is key. And so we have to collaborate. Yes. Yeah. Well, this has been just a delightful conversation and my voice got a little better as we went along for it. I don't know if you noticed, I was a little scratchy at times, but I was at the pink and Brandi Carlile concert last night in in Toronto as we record this and my voice was toast.
Cause I was screaming so much. I had so much fun. I love it. I love it. I have. Have fun enough fun that you lose your voice. That's something. Yeah. Well, [00:41:00] thank you, Jeannie. This has been really an illuminating conversation and I appreciate you sharing so generously. Thank you, Lisa. This has been a thrill to, to have this conversation with you.
I love it. I always love prepping for these two because it does kind of get my head. Thinking in different ways, but then to have a conversation, I was jotting down a few things that you were saying as well. So it's been fantastic. I do it is, is because, you know, I think I told you that when we first met, like the, the, okay.
Core core reason I do this podcast is for the listeners provide some inspiration. inspiration, some ideas, right? Because it's, it's tough in the trenches, right? So just a moment to pause. We need more reflection, not less. So listeners, this is for you. But secondly, for my guests, it's to provide platform for people to really, you know, You're a thought leader in your organization.
So I think it is interesting when you prep for this and then you're saying what you know and believe out loud. It's very powerful. And I think that that translates back into the organization. So, so I'm glad that [00:42:00] that was part of the experience for you. Thank you. It absolutely was. Thank you so much.
My pleasure.
