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[00:01:36] have you ever filled out a survey or attended a focus group providing lots of ideas and feedback only to notice that nothing ever came of it? Me too well in this discussion, my guest and I discuss how to use feedback, data to move from a performance management culture that feels like something done to you into one that is a team sport, a partner.
[00:02:06] My gas is Linda Keating. Linda is currently vice president and chief talent officer at a visa wealth. She's held vice president roles in two of Canada's other preeminent financial institutions and has led multidisciplinary teams of professionals across north America. I previously interviewed Linda's colleague and leader, Sherry Evans on episode 39.
[00:02:27] Check it out. Both of these women are incredibly talented professionals and are a Testament in my belief to the kind of people that Aviso employees. It was a pleasure getting to know Linda in this conversation. She's so accomplished and articulate, enjoy, and thanks for listening. Hello, and welcome back to talent management truths. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell. And today I'm joined by Linda Keating. Linda is vice president and chief talent officer at a visa wealth. And it's an absolute pleasure to have her welcome to the show Linda.
[00:03:03] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Thanks, Lisa, it's a pleasure to be.
[00:03:06] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So perhaps we could begin by you sharing with the listeners a little bit about your background. You have a really interesting
[00:03:13] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Well, I took a circuitous route into talent. I have a, I have a degree in education. So when I came out. Of university. I ended up in the new manager's development program at bell Canada, and was in learning and development and have to say a lot of my formative learning and sort of development was at bell.
[00:03:35] So I'll give them a kudo there. I led their, their, their talent team there for New management development. I hired them. So I was the head of management recruiting. And then I, I developed the new management development program. And then I got the opportunity to go into OD there, which was very new.
[00:03:53] And that's where I got introduced to the design around performance management succession and where I got introduced to competencies, which really I think is, was my root into the talent. Space because it was so intriguing and so exciting and where I got to work with hammock Burr, which is now Ko ferry, actually worked for them for a few years in their organizational effectiveness team.
[00:04:16] And
[00:04:17] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: the, you have the consulting side too.
[00:04:19] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Yes, exactly. So that's how I sort of scooted into.
[00:04:23] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Beautiful. And uh, so with, with moving into bell, so you mentioned the competencies were really exciting and kind of new, and, you know, I know some people that would think competencies aren't so exciting. I love them myself, cuz I've been able to craft them from the ground up, you know, working with leaders so that they're culturally appropriate and so on.
[00:04:42] Tell us why, what you find exciting about competencies.
[00:04:46] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I think what I find excited about competencies is it really provides an. Because I too develop them right from research interviews, as I was taught and people love to share what they do. They love to talk to you about what went well and how they do things. And it's the ability to link different behaviors that are done in conjunction.
[00:05:12] Produce brilliance and really make the difference between just doing okay and doing an amazing job. And I think it's also the fact that you start to recognize them as you observe them because you become so. Deep in this. And actually the behaviors that we have here at a visa, I developed exactly like that through research interviews, right across the organization at all levels and all departments.
[00:05:39] And I think it really reflects the culture of the organization when you do it that way.
[00:05:44] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I could not agree more. What what's one example of an Avi leadership behavior.
[00:05:50] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I think one of the ones. Probably reflect and differentiate a visa is community. We are owned by and service credit unions across Canada. And I think that link to the community, essence of credit unionism permeates our organization. We do a lot of work in, in, in the communities we work. And I like to think that a lot of the decisions we make as a business reflect, you know, our ESG and responsible investing.
[00:06:29] And, and I think that's one of the ones that. Truly differentiate us in the marketplace.
[00:06:35] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So great. Yeah. Community. That's a big word kind of in the work that I do. I really believe in this, this idea of co-creating community. So. When you talk about, you know, starting, you know, that anchoring, right. And really having the competencies or behaviors as a reflection of an organization, how did you go about communicating and, and embedding these behaviors with the employees at large?
[00:07:02] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I mean, we did our you know, we've done some good communications. We have a stunning internal communications team that I work with daily. It seems to me. So we, we, we launched them. We had our president talk about them. We talked about how they link to the values and I think that's, what's really important.
[00:07:22] We revisited. I guess last year in reference to some of the changes we were making in our, the direction of our company and our vision and our, our, our mission statement. And we thought our values and community remained one as respect leadership, of course. And the other thing we've been doing is.
[00:07:43] Launching them through what we call our culture committee. so we have members from across the organization. We meet biweekly. Each month has a theme. We're going to relaunch that in September. It was a little soft this year. You know, C and the pandemic. Sort of made everything just a little bit different.
[00:08:03] So on a monthly basis, we have activities that we want leaders to do and we make available for them. So it might be leadership month or it might be community month. And we also try to link that to special events, you know, such as black history month. Culture is really how people experience the organization and culture is what people believe they need to behave like in order to fit in and be successful in an organization.
[00:08:32] So the culture committee tries to influence the experience of the employees through the demonstration of our behaviors and our values. So I, I, I think that's probably one of the biggest ways that we try to talk about them we've integrated them into performance management. We've integrated them into our selection, so it it's foundational, but it hasn't been a huge splash.
[00:08:57] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes. And, and what I noticed there was an emphasis on creating experience. Right. And, and it kind of aligns with, you know, the Oz principle book you may be familiar with. So, What, what do they call accountability partners? I can't remember. Anyways, it's it's about creating a, a culture of accountability.
[00:09:12] So it's this idea that you know, experiences that we, that we create and offer drive the beliefs. That is what drives the, the actions, which drives the results. So versus saying, here's what we want you to do. Action. To get these results. We're actually starting with. you know, creating experiences to drive beliefs first.
[00:09:33] And I, I really that's always resonated with me.
[00:09:35] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): And I think that's really important for people to understand. Culture change is that you can change people's knowledge in an instant. You can send them an email, you can post something and they now know something different. And you know, that's what we did with the, with the behaviors here. You now know that we've changed them here.
[00:09:57] We've revised them. We've them. but they need to experience them to believe that that's what we're really doing here, cuz otherwise it's just a piece of knowledge. Right? So, and belief change in belief probably takes 18 to 24 months because it can't just be a momentary change. It has to be something that people continuously experience so that it is the norm
[00:10:23] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: And I think therein lies the challenge for a lot of organizations because, you know, people wanna rush to that finish line. Like I know I'm, guilty of that in life, just in general. I want every, I wanna have done everything yesterday, you know? And, and so, and you see this a lot, you know, in the executive suite for, for many of my clients' words, likely can we just get there now versus.
[00:10:43] allowing time for the sand to kind of make its way through amongst the rocks, you know, in that old metaphor or model that we used to, we used to show right. Change is a process that takes place over time.
[00:10:56] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): And I at one point in my career, I did a great deal of culture change, work globally. And I can remember, you know, we'd do an assessment, we'd do a survey I'd report out to the, to the leadership and they'd say, oh, well that was four months ago. We've totally changed. And I would just laugh and say, oh yeah, I'm, you know, I'm sure you have, but let's talk about how we're gonna make sure that it it's maintained.
[00:11:21] And we sustain the change because, oh, that's old news four months and I'm thinking, yeah, you got about another year behind you.
[00:11:30] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it's so funny. Cause you even think about just, just forming a basic new, personal habit. You know, they say it takes at least 90 days of continuous constant practice. So there's that idea of consistency. And it's so hard for all of us, you know, just on an individual level. So for an organization it's exponentially more difficult.
[00:11:48] So, so being really strategic is, is key.
[00:11:51] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): it is when I, when I talk about this with, with my clients and I talk about clients internally, as well as externally, when. A consultant and I'd say, you know, it'd be like, if I worked for you, Lisa and I was always late for meetings and finally said, this is unacceptable. So for six months, I'm there on time.
[00:12:12] I'm early. I bring you a coffee. And then one day I'm, I'm late again. And everyone in the room says, oh, it's Linda. She's always late. But if I've done that consistently for over a year, all of a sudden one day, I'm not there on time. And someone goes, oh my gosh, I wonder what's wrong. Linda's always here. And that's when you know that, that the change is now the norm.
[00:12:37] This is what is expected and that's the same way with culture.
[00:12:42] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, it's, it's, you know, there that you've changed the belief about who Linda is and how she shows up. And that creates a new level of, of tolerance of empathy which is, you know, and that being almost a buzzword nowadays, right? How do we create cultivate increase empathy in our organization? That's a great example.
[00:13:01] So let's kind of, you know, digress slightly. To your focus on the voice of the employee, because I think that you're doing some really interesting work in this space.
[00:13:13] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): and this is so timely. Lisa, we launched our second annual voice of the employee survey yesterday.
[00:13:20] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Ah, perfect.
[00:13:22] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): we've, we've had a build up. Bill mentioned it, which is our CEO. Then he, he mentioned it in a communication. Then we sort of reminded people last week. And then on Monday, I guess I sent out a note with everyone saying, Hey, it's that time again?
[00:13:37] Please take the time to, to complete it. And within one hour, We had over a hundred completions. So 12% of our population completed the voice of the employee survey within an hour. I am so excited.
[00:13:53] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I can see that you're glowing. So, so tell us, what do you attribute that to?
[00:13:58] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I think the buildup, you know, the fact that the president talked about it, that it was in the newsletter and that, you know, I also, we use Yammer, so I posted it on Yammer. I, a great believer in making sure that people sort of see it in different, different places in the organization. And I think people have something to say.
[00:14:18] And, and I think the reason they have something to say this year last year, Traditionally, our organization has about 70 to 75% completion rate, which is extraordinary. So we have a, I guess, a verbal population, so to speak. So I think people have things to say. And I think one of the reasons for that, or maybe several is that just recently we reminded everybody of all the things that we did this year, because they told. and I think that's something that that organizations often forget that, you know, they do the survey, they do stuff and they think everyone will know that they did it because of the survey. But the truth is people go, oh, they finally figured that out. They don't, you know, oh, they, you know, If finally figured that out, that would be a good thing.
[00:15:10] But we've tried to use the phrases because you told us because you told us that you didn't have you know, we're a smallish organization and growing. So our learning organization is very small. So for instance, this year we purchased LinkedIn learning for all employees because in their last survey, they said, we don't have the opportunity to have access to additional. And, you know, the world is changing. People don't want to come and listen to me, talk to them for an hour in a face to face, you know, classroom event. And LinkedIn learning provides them with so many options that, you know, if they've got five minutes and they just wanna, oh, I've got this difficult call.
[00:15:50] Maybe I need to know what I should be doing, or, or, Hey, they're talking about agile. What is that? I've got 15 minutes. I can go and look that up. It's so accessible. And, and it puts people. In charge. And so we, we did that you know, because they told us that performance management was a chore and something that they didn't look forward to.
[00:16:11] In fact, you know, that it's, they feel it's something that gets done to them. We did focus groups with all levels of the organization. We got their feedback. And then we integrated that into our new launch of performance, through partnership. And that's a critical thing. This isn't something that's getting done to you.
[00:16:29] It's something. You partner with someone it's it's, it's, it's a, it's a team sport and we, we, we launched that this year and we said, Hey, don't forget, you told us all these things that you didn't like. And so here's what we did to make it better. So let us know if we did a good job, like, do we need to do some more tweaks we're listening.
[00:16:51] And I think that's important.
[00:16:53] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, and it shows to this openness to. change to, you know, say, because you told us we are changing X, but it's also this ongoing willingness to evolve as needs and, and experiences dictate. Right. Because even if we think we've got it right, you know, the changes are gonna fit exactly. You know, based on what the feedback is.
[00:17:15] It may not actually hold true in execution. So that's okay.
[00:17:20] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Absolutely. And I mean, we investigated the whole concept of no performance management system, cuz you know, there are organizations that do that, but because of the nature of our business, a lot of the, the companies that we, where we found that it really worked for them to have no performance management there's, you know, there's some, there's some sense of performance.
[00:17:41] there wasn't a lot of individual contributor bonus planning. It was more organizational bonuses and that works. But when you have an individual component to your bonus or your, your pay structure, you really need to be able to say, here's what I expect. Here's how I'm measuring you. And here's how we did, right.
[00:18:01] So it was, we did look at it, but we just felt that we. there's something very appealing about it, but there's also something that makes it sort of difficult when you've got those kind of aspects to your bonus plan.
[00:18:14] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, this is, this is the thing, like I remember going to uh, uh, thing with, with David rock, you know, who's
[00:18:20] really been behind this movement. And so it was, it was with senior leaders and it was a morning. I just can't think of the, the group that I was with.
[00:18:27] But it was to hear about this idea of, of ditching performance management. So on and so on in the end though, when we kind of dug a little bit and I went up and talked to him after you. People couldn't get their heads around the pay for performance aspect. So there still needed to be some way to measure.
[00:18:44] Right. And to be able to map that back, it's partly about fairness and it's also part of it comes down to what high performers expect. Right. They don't want people getting a free ride, so to
[00:18:54] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): exactly. exactly. And you want to drive performance and you also want to recognize the extraordinary things people do and the extraordinary lengths they go to in order to meet the expectations and doing things that you don't expect in order to, to come up with something different or new in order to, Increase sales or increase customer satisfaction, particularly.
[00:19:21] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Well, so now something you had shared with me previously around, you know, the revamp, if you will, of, of your performance through partnership program, which I really love at name very intentional. So you talked about moving from goals that focused on what you want to do that was sort of aspirational to what you will be doing, and I'm hoping you can elaborate and share some examples with us.
[00:19:45] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Well, what, what some of the feedback we got when we did the focus groups was, I don't know where to start. What, what is a goal? Because somehow over time it had evolved into something that wasn't part of what you did. It was something special or something outside or additional. And it had to be, you know, it had to be strategic and, you know, and, and we had initially started with a program where the employees wrote the goals and the manager reviewed them.
[00:20:20] We thought, mm. You know, people are struggling with this. So we said, let's have a partnership of conversation before, and let's focus on what we pay you to do. What are your accountabilities? What are we recognizing for here and create goals that are linked directly to what you do every day. And then. It sort of falls on the shoulders of the manager and the leaderships to say, this is how, what you do links and contributes to the strategy of the organization.
[00:20:54] We wouldn't have you do something that was meaningless. So it it's, it, it helped people say, oh, okay, well I know what I do on a day to day. So here's my goal. And I think it, it brought clarity and a bit of simplicity to it that we had drifted.
[00:21:11] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: I've seen that happen before, you know, it's so fascinating to me, both in organizations I've worked, worked for in, and also with clients. But I know you know, one, one client organization where they've kind of moved to is it's, it's very clear that there's a set out of the goals. Say there's five that, you know, four of those are based.
[00:21:31] The actual work and, and it's not just about stretching artificially for the sake of stretching in that ongoing almost like domino effect of, are we ever gonna get off the continuous improvement wheel? Right. Like I just don't know how much faster I can go or how much more productive or efficient or effective, whatever you want me to be.
[00:21:47] So it was this idea you've got it's, it's like what you're talking about. Very simple, straightforward let's focus on what we pay you to do. And then there is one more stretch type goal that could be related to that work or to their personal growth and development. That's often in a separate planning piece.
[00:22:02] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): And we do have the IDP and we try to link the individual development plans to the behaviors and the values. So what do you need to work on? And we've just completed the second quarterly touch base. And hopefully that's where people had the conversation about development, as opposed to Just performance.
[00:22:25] And we are hoping that they utilized, we sort of created a resource over an overlay of LinkedIn that said, if you're focusing on respect, if you're focusing on, you know, customer experience, here are some programs that you might want to, to utilize and then have a conversation with, well, how are you going to use that on your.
[00:22:45] So, I haven't heard any feedback yet, cuz it's I guess the quarter discussions have till the end of July. I'm hoping that they're happening as we speak.
[00:22:55] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Now, how do you find you know, in order to ensure that those quarterly conversations are having and in, in the way that, that you would like how, you know, what are the things that, that you have put in place to, to help that.
[00:23:07] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Well, we've put in place some training. How to have a good conversation. We have discussion guides and we have two sets, one for the employee, one for the manager that says how to prepare, to have a really purposeful and meaningful conversation around performance and development. So we've put those out.
[00:23:28] We reminded everybody and we, we said, here's the link to all the materials. We encourage you to have that conversation. Actually I was interview. internally. So there was a podcast of me internally talking about this and encouraging people to go online, access these tools and make the most out of the conversation.
[00:23:48] And if your boss isn't reaching out to you you also have responsibility here to say, excuse me, I'd like to have a conversation about my development, you know, Hey, It's a two way street, as we said,
[00:24:00] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Well, it
[00:24:01] is.
[00:24:01] And I, and I, I think though it bears saying right, cuz I think a lot of times it really links back to your emphasis on voice of the employee. A lot of times though, individual contributors don't necessarily. It's not that they don't want to, to be responsible for their own growth and development, but they sometimes think that they don't have a strong enough voice that they can't say, Hey, Linda, I wanna have a conversation here.
[00:24:23] We're supposed to have that development conversation. Like it feels, I think it feels like they need to be brave and have some courage. And that may be true in some cases.
[00:24:31] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): And, and, and I think that's true. And, and, and I think what people need to recognize is that conversation is a right. It's not a privilege.
[00:24:40] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Mm, I agree. I agree. And it's, it goes back to the partnership piece. This isn't about like, like we can't tick along with, with, you know, only the leaders doing what they need to be doing or only the employees. Like it really is. How do we work in concert as a cohesive community?
[00:24:57] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): And at one of the organizations that I worked at, I created a performance management program that was called my development, my success. I always liked it better in French, more de developed more Morei sounded so much nicer
[00:25:13] and.
[00:25:17] But it was really about taking the reins. You know, this is don't wait on the sidelines for someone to say, Hey, guess what, Linda, I think I know the best job for you really. It's about, Hey, what's going on here that I might be interested in, you know, and asking the questions. One of the things we're doing in, in Aviso I have a very talented woman who works with me, Sandra, Mary LA, Dick. And she has been working on career pathing. And again, we're a, we're a small but mighty team and we've been doing it division by division and we've been putting up. Career maps on our intranet. So it says here's where you could come from.
[00:26:01] Here are the skills that you need. Here's what you require. Here's a pathway through and out of this organization to another part. And we also have these great videos of our employees talking about their jobs, what they do and what they like and what they learned. And so we're encouraging people to go on there.
[00:26:21] There's more. To a visa than your single division, look around and see what other people are doing, because you might say, wow, that sounds really interesting. What would I have to do to get in there? And then you can have a focused conversation about I'm really interested in joining this CU wealth team that looked really interesting.
[00:26:41] What would I need to do to make myself eligible, you know? And then you have a purpose and a,
[00:26:48] a.
[00:26:48] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, I I'm a huge fan of career paths and actually there's a couple. Participants in my, my group mentoring program, the talent trust that are currently have those on their goals for this year, because it it's, it's about helping encourage a culture of, you know, let's put our hands up, let let's, as a leader, I welcome that. Like I was looking for people who would say, I wanna do that. I can do that. Like, what else is out there? You know, the people that wanna broaden their horizon and, and are very interested in different ways that they can contribute to the business.
[00:27:20] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): So we have, we just launched it, I believe last week. So really excited about that. We have some of our sales teams on there and it just. Eventually, as I said, small team and, and it is a lot of work. It's a lot of work for the, the leaders of the, the divisions as well, cuz they really have to sit down and articulate.
[00:27:40] So what are the skills that you need? What are you going to gain here? What is a natural path? What is sort of a standalone role? In, in, in, in my division, where could they go from here? so there's a lot of work involved in it, when it's finished it, it is a thing of.
[00:27:58] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: It. Well, it is. And, and I, I think it creates that sense of ownership for one's own development, but also with that comes a stronger kind of belief and sense of belonging in the organization about, you know, that's, that's attached to that contribution, that ability to contribute.
[00:28:17] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Yes. And long time ago I took a, a course and, and I was certified in it too. I'm trying to think of who it was. It's a blessing in white. I, I can't remember. I don't even know if they were long or if they're even around anymore, but it was called choices, choices, choices. And it was about where you were. Your dream job where you thought you might go in the organization, then it talked about your personal values and what, what made you happy? and the, the job that I always thought that I wanted, I realized, Ew. You know what, when I think about, when I think about all the stuff that this person would have to do, I'm not sure I really wanna do that.
[00:28:59] I really wanna do this. And as I moved in my career and, and I, I would interview and, you know, I get head hunted and stuff. And I remember someone saying the, the thing with you, Linda is. You aspire to leadership, but you want to do
[00:29:18] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: oh, well, my goodness. And this is, this is so, so true of so many, you know, I think of my, my own husband who spent, you know, I met him in, in corporate after I left teaching and a long time ago and He kept, he was so good at what he did, you know, so he kept getting tapped to be a team leader or a manager, and he was okay at it, but he hated it.
[00:29:38] He actually didn't want to be responsible for anybody's performance by his own. And you know, you know, now he's self-employed as am I, but you know, it took many years to sort of get to the point where it was like, why do I keep sort of getting sucked into this when I don't actually enjoy it? Right.
[00:29:52] Really placing value on his own values.
[00:29:56] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Exactly. But, you know, I've always been lucky in that. As I took leadership roles in different organizations, especially here. Well, last week I led. The purposeful conversations course, because I love leading courses. and I love doing that and it's not quite as much fun virtually, but uh, I, I enjoy, you know, hearing about the experience and at the end people saying, wow, I never thought about it like that.
[00:30:24] And so, I still lead courses, even though I'm the vice
[00:30:28] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: that's that's okay. I did that in my last role. I was the VP of talent as well. And, and, and, you know, I, what I think is interesting is, is how it connects you back to the essence of the work and what we do, and you're hearing that direct feedback. So I think there's, I think All senior leaders should do a little bit of it.
[00:30:46] If they're in our area of, of work, right. To, to have that connection back to that energy you get from facilitation and, and
[00:30:54] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Especially face to face, but even, even virtually, I, I still enjoy it. And, and I think it's also my acting background. sometimes have the urge to be on the stage.
[00:31:04] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, that's great. You were an actress. I love it. Okay, well, so there's one other piece that I really wanted to chat about too. That's connected to this, cuz I think you're doing some again, some interesting work it's around your high potential program and the emphasis and support and resourcing you've put around coaching.
[00:31:22] Would you let us peek behind the curtains on that? A little.
[00:31:25] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Sure. We we've been working on our high potential team probably for the last three years. And, and Sandra again has been doing a lot of this the heavy lifting on this, but we've, we've got individual executive coaches for a great number of our especially VP and. High potentials. And then we identified directors and senior managers.
[00:31:49] So, so what we're calling enterprise talent and we introduced a peer coaching program that we are calling coaching community circles that are. Facilitated initially by our team. And then eventually they're taken over by the team themselves and they have access to materials. And once a quarter or depending some of them are meeting every two months.
[00:32:15] They have 90 minutes where they get together on a topic. There's a pre-read and then they share. Experiences and talk about how this works out or plays out in our organization and how can we take this learning and what we're hearing from others and make ourselves better leaders and better managers.
[00:32:34] so that's been very very successful. We've just launched another two, I believe, circles last week. And the other thing that we launched for our, our enterprise talent is, the innovation lab. Working with Dr. David Weiss and they were. Selected from across the organization, all different parts of the organization, different levels.
[00:32:58] And they're working on a specific business opportunity or issue and they do the research. They go out and then in September, they're going to present to the executive committee. What they're findings is around this this opportunity and what their recommendation is maybe to take action or. Not really sure.
[00:33:18] I've sort of, we, we backed out of it. We just wanted to make sure that it was them not being observed, just working. So they're learning the approach to innovation, cuz this is really about leading an innovative. Organization, not entirely being an innovative leader cuz that's sort of a different thing. We really want to, to give them those skills.
[00:33:41] So really looking forward to September when I hear what they've come up with, I think their last session was this week.
[00:33:47] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Oh, I'd be curious to be a fly on
[00:33:49] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Yeah, really? Really? Yeah.
[00:33:52] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: So
[00:33:53] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I'll let you know because I'm really excited to, to hear what they've come up.
[00:33:57] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, that's fantastic. So actually, and I just wanna go back to the, the, with the coaching community circles, because I've developed those as well in the past. They work really, really well. When you say the pre-read and sort of the conversation guide, is that something, even though your, your team is no longer facilitating those, once they get going, you're still providing
[00:34:15] those regular yeah. Okay. So there's kind of a build and an overall design and direction that you
[00:34:22] provide.
[00:34:23] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): and I, there is a vendor
[00:34:25] and
[00:34:26] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: There is a vendor.
[00:34:27] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): really badly because I don't remember the
[00:34:29] name.
[00:34:29] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: coach? Yeah, that I remember there's one coaching ourselves. I think they
[00:34:32] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I think that's who it is. And I know it's Canadian, it's out of Montreal. Sandra's again, running with this, but One of the, the successes I see from this is some of the people who are our, our initial coaching circles started their own.
[00:34:50] So they put their hand up and said, I want to be the leader of this.
[00:34:54] And so they've started their own coaching circles. So that's when you know, it's starting to. Be ingrained and, and, and part of the, the landscape. So we're encouraging more of that. We're gonna hold a few sort of open opportunities where you can just sign up for the topic and see if people come in and then would they sign up for the next two or whatever.
[00:35:16] So trying to, to get that more widespread.
[00:35:19] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah, it's fascinating. Cuz that's the, the whole concept of peer learning models I think is, is starting to get more attention. And you know, I do these monthly talent talks for talent professionals to come in and it's really this, the same idea, right? It's not me teaching to them. I'm. It, I kinda set the stage and then they're talking amongst themselves and, and, and people love it.
[00:35:39] Right. It's powerful cuz nobody wants to be told. We wanna, we wanna talk and like what have you tried? And here's where I'm challenged and what do you think? And, and, you know, people I think are often surprised to get a bit addicted to the fact that they know more than they thought they did. Right. you know, and that, that kind of propagates this idea of wanting to do, you know, run their own.
[00:35:58] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): Yeah. And it's, it's nice to hear what other people are doing and what they're finding successful. Cuz sometimes it's something really little and sometimes it's something really big and You just think, wow, that's a, I could do that. And it wouldn't cost me that
[00:36:12] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yeah. Yeah. It's conversation and learning, and there's so much value, right. For the, you know, there is an investment of time and some energy and I it's completely worth it. Well, so we are at the end of our time together. And I just want to thank you really. I mean, it's just been such a pleasure. Speaking with you today and, and hearing about some of the, the neat things you're doing at a visa,
[00:36:34] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): It was my pleasure, Lisa. And I look forward to chatting again
[00:36:38] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: me.
[00:36:38] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--guest523356--lynda (1): I will let you know what's happening with the innovation lab.
[00:36:41] lynda-keating_recording-1_2022-07-20--t03-10-07pm--61157a395affa4006d0cfc64--lollyg: Yes, I'm gonna hold you to that. Perfect. Thanks so
[00:36:43] much, Linda.
